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Subject: Bridge Clarification rss

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Tony Russell
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I have a question about the Bridge card, and I'm hoping I did not miss it in a previous post. I understand that the Bridge makes cards cost 1 less (but not less than 0), but I'm wondering about that qualifier in parentheses (i.e. "including cards in other players' hands"). I know I'm just not stretching my imagination enough here, but when does the case come up where "other players' hands" are significant when I'm playing the bridge? In other words, why is that phrase there?

Also, I was playing with a group tonight, and some asked about the cost being one less for "this turn" and whether that applied for other players as well as the player that laid down the card. My understanding is that a "turn" is a player's Action+Buy+Cleanup, and thus the other players do not partake of said discount. I pretty sure I'm correct on this.

Thanks in advance for your input.
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Blue (They/She)
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Sounds to me like they're leaving room for future cards to affect cards from players' hands with soem sort of cost-based mechanism, like the Saboteur.
 
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Donald X.
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tonetonitonyrussell wrote:
I have a question about the Bridge card, and I'm hoping I did not miss it in a previous post. I understand that the Bridge makes cards cost 1 less (but not less than 0), but I'm wondering about that qualifier in parentheses (i.e. "including cards in other players' hands"). I know I'm just not stretching my imagination enough here, but when does the case come up where "other players' hands" are significant when I'm playing the bridge? In other words, why is that phrase there?

Also, I was playing with a group tonight, and some asked about the cost being one less for "this turn" and whether that applied for other players as well as the player that laid down the card. My understanding is that a "turn" is a player's Action+Buy+Cleanup, and thus the other players do not partake of said discount. I pretty sure I'm correct on this.

Thanks in advance for your input.

The phrase is there to make it clear that Bridge makes all cards everywhere cheaper, not just cards in the supply. Bridge doesn't just make it cheaper to buy cards; it lowers the number in the corner on all cards everywhere for that turn. Bridge actually says "including cards in players' hands" (not "other"), and that case comes up with Remodel and such. You play Village Bridge Upgrade and trash Gold. Gold costs $5 so you gain a card costing $6. There is no such card and you gain nothing. Without that clarification, some players thought you could trash Gold and gain Province there, as Province only costs $7. Yes, Province costs $7 after a Bridge, but the Gold you trash also only costs $5 then.

It applies for all players, but only during that turn. So for example if you play Village Village Bridge Bridge Swindler, when you hit someone's Estate you can give them a Curse, as that Estate costs $0 now (and Curse still costs $0).
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Tony Russell
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Excellent clarification, just what I was looking for. Thank you very much.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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donaldx wrote:
tonetonitonyrussell wrote:
I have a question about the Bridge card, and I'm hoping I did not miss it in a previous post. I understand that the Bridge makes cards cost 1 less (but not less than 0), but I'm wondering about that qualifier in parentheses (i.e. "including cards in other players' hands"). I know I'm just not stretching my imagination enough here, but when does the case come up where "other players' hands" are significant when I'm playing the bridge? In other words, why is that phrase there?

Also, I was playing with a group tonight, and some asked about the cost being one less for "this turn" and whether that applied for other players as well as the player that laid down the card. My understanding is that a "turn" is a player's Action+Buy+Cleanup, and thus the other players do not partake of said discount. I pretty sure I'm correct on this.

Thanks in advance for your input.

The phrase is there to make it clear that Bridge makes all cards everywhere cheaper, not just cards in the supply. Bridge doesn't just make it cheaper to buy cards; it lowers the number in the corner on all cards everywhere for that turn. Bridge actually says "including cards in players' hands" (not "other"), and that case comes up with Remodel and such. You play Village Bridge Upgrade and trash Gold. Gold costs $5 so you gain a card costing $6. There is no such card and you gain nothing. Without that clarification, some players thought you could trash Gold and gain Province there, as Province only costs $7. Yes, Province costs $7 after a Bridge, but the Gold you trash also only costs $5 then.

It applies for all players, but only during that turn. So for example if you play Village Village Bridge Bridge Swindler, when you hit someone's Estate you can give them a Curse, as that Estate costs $0 now (and Curse still costs $0).


So is Bridge a positive or negative when combined with the Saboteur? (I am assuming the Bridge applies to revealed cards from a player's deck, even though they are not technically "in players' hands" when the Saboteur attacks. Donald, is that correct?) On that basis, then, the Saboteur would skip $3 cards (because they now temporarily cost $2) and hit only $4+... and the replacements would bottom out at $2 (i.e., a $4 card that costs $3 now would be replaced with a $2 card that costs $1 now). So the Saboteur loses the ability to trash/Copperize $3 cards.

Is this a net negative for the Bridge-Saboteur combination? On the one hand, you lose that possibility of trashing a Swindler or Silver... on the other hand, it means you'll hit your opponents' higher-value cards.

So next time I have Shanty Town-Bridge-Saboteur, should I play that combo?
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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Golux13 wrote:
So next time I have Shanty Town-Bridge-Saboteur, should I play that combo?


If I had Shanty Town, Bridge, and Saboteur in my hand, that is the order I would play them in.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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Faranim wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
So next time I have Shanty Town-Bridge-Saboteur, should I play that combo?


If I had Shanty Town, Bridge, and Saboteur in my hand, that is the order I would play them in.


I understand the order; my question was whether it makes sense to play the Bridge and Saboteur together, or whether it makes the Saboteur less useful.
 
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Dave Daley
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If you play one bridge, you will be Sabotaging a card worth AT LEAST 4 instead of one worth at least 3.

So you have a bit better chance of skipping the "little boys" and getting at his BIG cards (province, gold etc).

At least that's how I see it.
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Dan Schaeffer
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elkabong wrote:
If you play one bridge, you will be Sabotaging a card worth AT LEAST 4 instead of one worth at least 3.

So you have a bit better chance of skipping the "little boys" and getting at his BIG cards (province, gold etc).

At least that's how I see it.


Yes, but it also means he will be able to take a $2 card (which costs $1 thanks to the Bridge) or (if I hit a $5 card) a $3 card. Admittedly, both of those are possible with an un-Bridged Saboteur, if I hit a $4 or $5 card before any $3 cards come up... but it's guaranteed to happen with a Bridged Saboteur. So does that trade-off make Bridging the Saboteur less attractive, or more?
 
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Donald X.
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Golux13 wrote:
Yes, but it also means he will be able to take a $2 card (which costs $1 thanks to the Bridge) or (if I hit a $5 card) a $3 card. Admittedly, both of those are possible with an un-Bridged Saboteur, if I hit a $4 or $5 card before any $3 cards come up... but it's guaranteed to happen with a Bridged Saboteur. So does that trade-off make Bridging the Saboteur less attractive, or more?

You are imagining this trade-off. The difference between x and x-2 is 2.
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Dave G
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donaldx wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
Yes, but it also means he will be able to take a $2 card (which costs $1 thanks to the Bridge) or (if I hit a $5 card) a $3 card. Admittedly, both of those are possible with an un-Bridged Saboteur, if I hit a $4 or $5 card before any $3 cards come up... but it's guaranteed to happen with a Bridged Saboteur. So does that trade-off make Bridging the Saboteur less attractive, or more?

You are imagining this trade-off. The difference between x and x-2 is 2.


Yeah, gotta agree with Donald's math here, buddy. It's only better--you're guaranteeing yourself an opportunity to trash a higher valued card. Yes, you don't get to trash a three with no replacement, but generally speaking I'd say it's better to turn a gold into a silver or a province back into a gold.
 
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donaldx wrote:
Golux13 wrote:
Yes, but it also means he will be able to take a $2 card (which costs $1 thanks to the Bridge) or (if I hit a $5 card) a $3 card. Admittedly, both of those are possible with an un-Bridged Saboteur, if I hit a $4 or $5 card before any $3 cards come up... but it's guaranteed to happen with a Bridged Saboteur. So does that trade-off make Bridging the Saboteur less attractive, or more?

You are imagining this trade-off. The difference between x and x-2 is 2.


With an un-Bridged Saboteur, if I hit a $3 card, my opponent takes nothing (or a Copper or Curse) in exchange, because there are no $1 cards. With a Bridged Saboteur, his $3 cards are passed by, so I lose that possibility, in exchange for a guaranteed hit on a $4+ card. That's the trade-off I mean.

I guess another way of wording the question is, does the Saboteur lose any value when it loses the possibility of hitting $3 cards? And if so, is that loss offset (or more than offset) by the guaranteed hit on a $4+ card?
 
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Donald X.
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Golux13 wrote:
With an un-Bridged Saboteur, if I hit a $3 card, my opponent takes nothing (or a Copper or Curse) in exchange, because there are no $1 cards. With a Bridged Saboteur, his $3 cards are passed by, so I lose that possibility, in exchange for a guaranteed hit on a $4+ card. That's the trade-off I mean.

I guess another way of wording the question is, does the Saboteur lose any value when it loses the possibility of hitting $3 cards? And if so, is that loss offset (or more than offset) by the guaranteed hit on a $4+ card?

ic

Well that's a strategy question, so I'll leave that for someone else.
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Matt Dickinson
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Bridge/Saboteur would become more useful as the game goes on, as Gold and Province cards are more likely to be in your deck later in the game. In the beginning, it could be useless, if the only $4 and up cards are in your opponent's hand.

Just for fun, imagine...Throne Room/Throne Room/Bridge/Saboteur. Ooh, nasty.
 
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French Taunter wrote:
Just for fun, imagine...Throne Room/Throne Room/Bridge/Saboteur. Ooh, nasty.


I have managed to pull this off, but it wasn't enough to win the game. It hosed one of my opponents, but didn't effect the other two enough to pull out the win. After that, most of us agreed that the card was not really worth playing.
 
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Jeff Wolfe
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French Taunter wrote:
Just for fun, imagine...Throne Room/Throne Room/Bridge/Saboteur. Ooh, nasty.


"Oh, look, I have 40 cards in my Gardens deck, but none of them are affected by your Attack."
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JonPrud wrote:
French Taunter wrote:
Just for fun, imagine...Throne Room/Throne Room/Bridge/Saboteur. Ooh, nasty.


I have managed to pull this off, but it wasn't enough to win the game. It hosed one of my opponents, but didn't effect the other two enough to pull out the win. After that, most of us agreed that the card was not really worth playing.


Are you talking about the Bridge before the Sabateur or the Sabateur by itself? Because I know you are not talking about the Throne Room because... well because you are not a drooling fantatic. You aren't are you?
 
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donaldx wrote:

The phrase is there to make it clear that Bridge makes all cards everywhere cheaper, not just cards in the supply. Bridge doesn't just make it cheaper to buy cards; it lowers the number in the corner on all cards everywhere for that turn. Bridge actually says "including cards in players' hands" (not "other"), and that case comes up with Remodel and such. You play Village Bridge Upgrade and trash Gold. Gold costs $5 so you gain a card costing $6. There is no such card and you gain nothing. Without that clarification, some players thought you could trash Gold and gain Province there, as Province only costs $7. Yes, Province costs $7 after a Bridge, but the Gold you trash also only costs $5 then.

It applies for all players, but only during that turn. So for example if you play Village Village Bridge Bridge Swindler, when you hit someone's Estate you can give them a Curse, as that Estate costs $0 now (and Curse still costs $0).


Obviously I can't say you're wrong.. :-) but I will give it a shot anywho...

I looked at how the verticle nature of how timing works with other cards and I interpreted that Bridge would not effect the card trashed by Remodel but still effect the card gained by it. The reasoning is twofold.

Remodel's first step is "Trash a card". After that is accomplished you then check the cost of the card -worded something like check the cost of the Thrashed (past tense) card. The rub trashed cards are not in the supply nor are they in your hand.

Thus we have been playing this way where Village Bridge Remodel gives you a bit more bang for the buck. Actually thats why I came to this forum was to check out which way the timing of this combo was supposed to be played.

We will change to the correct borring way! :-)
 
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HRViolation wrote:
donaldx wrote:

The phrase is there to make it clear that Bridge makes all cards everywhere cheaper, not just cards in the supply.
...


Obviously I can't say you're wrong.. :-) but I will give it a shot anywho...

...

Remodel's first step is "Trash a card". After that is accomplished you then check the cost of the card -worded something like check the cost of the Thrashed (past tense) card. The rub trashed cards are not in the supply nor are they in your hand.


"All cards" means "all cards." The fact that some cards are explicitly included does not mean that others are excluded. Lawyers will say, "including but not limited to" just to make it perfectly clear, but that doesn't mean the other way is wrong. If they had wanted to say that cards in your hand and cards in the supply cost less but others cost more, they wouldn't have said "all cards including."

Quote:
We will change to the correct borring way! :-)


Good for you.


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