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Subject: Fan Made Card - Zealot rss

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Mike Young
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I rather like this one, but have only tried to play it in a 2 player game and neither of us had much interest. I suspect it will garner more interest when I try in in 3 and 4 player games. (I also raised it from 1VP/player to 2VP/player, which might make it work better in 2 player games).

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Robert M
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I like this idea one better than the Doupleganger
 
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Drew Spencer
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This is a very radical idea for a card. If you get into a game where it gets bought, write a session report!
 
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Mat Nowak
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Ooh, it'd be interesting to work out the correct way of going about a Zealot strategy. It's kind of difficult to do because the more you play Zealots the more others get them and can play them back at you, leading to a huge cascade until the Zealot pile is gone. It's so chaotic that I love it.
 
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James Casey
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Interesting idea though. I do get the feeling its one people would avoid because they can't work out how to make the most of it.

There is a potential problem - what happens if you play it in a 4P game, and there is only one left? Who gets it?
 
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Larry Welborn
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waferthinninja wrote:
Interesting idea though. I do get the feeling its one people would avoid because they can't work out how to make the most of it.

There is a potential problem - what happens if you play it in a 4P game, and there is only one left? Who gets it?


The player who goes after the one who played the card, same as curses.
 
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Andy Phillips
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I'm confused about the VP allocation. Say I buy a zealot in 4 player game and play it so everyone has at least one zealot in their deck. At the end of the game lets assume the distribution of zealots is as follows:

Player 1:4
Player 2:3
Player 3:2
Player 4:1

Does this mean the VPs get spread as follows counting each player's zealots once per deck?

Player 1:6
Player 2:4
Player 3:2
Player 4:0

Or is it like this, counting each zealot card individually?

Player 1:12
Player 2:4
Player 3:2
Player 4:0
 
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Mike Young
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AndyP123 wrote:
I'm confused about the VP allocation. Say I buy a zealot in 4 player game and play it so everyone has at least one zealot in their deck. At the end of the game lets assume the distribution of zealots is as follows:

Player 1:4
Player 2:3
Player 3:2
Player 4:1



Each Zealot is counted individually, but you have the scoring backwards.

Player 1 has no players with more Zealots, so each is worth 0 points.
Player 2's are worth 2 each, for 6 points.
Player 3's are worth 4 each, for 8 points.
Player 4's are worth 6 each, for 6 points.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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AndyP123 wrote:
I'm confused about the VP allocation. Say I buy a zealot in 4 player game and play it so everyone has at least one zealot in their deck. At the end of the game lets assume the distribution of zealots is as follows:

Player 1:4
Player 2:3
Player 3:2
Player 4:1

Does this mean the VPs get spread as follows counting each player's zealots once per deck?

Player 1:6
Player 2:4
Player 3:2
Player 4:0

Or is it like this, counting each zealot card individually?

Player 1:12
Player 2:4
Player 3:2
Player 4:0


It reads "2 VP for each player who has more Zealots than you." In your scenarios, it looks to me like Player 1's 4 Zealots would be worth 0 VP, since there are no players with more Zealots than he has. Player 2 would have 6 VP (3 Zealots x 1 player with more than him x 2 VP); Player 3 would have 8 VP (2 Zealots x 2 players x 2 VP), and player 4 would have 6 VP (1 Zealot x 3 players x 2 VP).

I think the best-case scenarios work out like this:

2P:
1-[2...9] --> 2VP
2-[3...8] --> 4VP
3-[4...7] --> 6VP
4-[5...6] --> 8VP

3P:
1-[2...4]-[7...5] --> 4VP
2-[3...4]-[5...4] --> 8VP
3-[4...7]-x --> 6VP (x = 3 or less)
4-[5...6]-x --> 8VP (x = 1 or 0)

4P:
1-2-3-3 --> 6VP
2-3-3-x --> 8VP (x = 2 or less)
3-[4...7]-x-y --> 6VP (x+y = 3 or less)
4-[5...6]-x-y --> 8VP (x+1 = 1 or 0)

So you max out at 8 VP for 4 Zealots if someone else gets more, or at 2 Zealots if things break right for you. (And if you get that 5th Zealot, you're screwed.)

Note: This assumes that there are only 10 Zealots in play. As it is considered a a VP card, there should be 12 available in a 3P and 4P and only 8 in a 2P. (Having gone through this with 10, I'm not doing it again right now.)
 
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Robert M
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Could be interesting if mixed with the Masquerade, so people try to pass off their Zealots, to make each theirs worth more, but seems like they would run out too quick to be add much fun with more players (especially if you try with 6 then if one person buys a single zealot, then the 3rd play empties the deck)
 
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Ted Vessenes
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The fact that the scoring is this confusing is a warning sign that you're making another Carcassonne Farmer fiasco. You're also creating a scoring scheme that scales with the number of players in the game, which will have a serious warping effect in larger games. Just keep it simple:

Zealot (3): Action - Attack / Curse
+1 Action
All other players gain a Zealot.
This card is worth -1 VP at end of game.
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Robert M
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tedv wrote:
The fact that the scoring is this confusing is a warning sign that you're making another Carcassonne Farmer fiasco. You're also creating a scoring scheme that scales with the number of players in the game, which will have a serious warping effect in larger games. Just keep it simple:

Zealot (3): Action - Attack / Curse
+1 Action
All other players gain a Zealot.
This card is worth -1 VP at end of game.


Since you are labeling this a Curse could it be given by the witch? That could be interesting, but leads to the question who decides what type of curse is given(I'd guess one playing card or standard until they run out then other)
 
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Ted Vessenes
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Well there is presumably a term difference between the card name "Curse" and card type "Curse". Whenever a card says a player "gains an X", then X refers to a card by name, so that would only be the Curse card. Cards that let you gain a specific type always specify the constraints and who chooses. For example, Mine says "Gain a treasure card of your choice costing at most 3 more". Since the Zealot doesn't specify who makes choices, the implication is that there are no such choices to be made, meaning that "Curse" refers to the card name, not card type.

Sorry for the overly pedantic answer.
 
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Mike Young
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banyan wrote:
This is a very radical idea for a card. If you get into a game where it gets bought, write a session report!


Well, we tried it. As people suspected, it was more confusing than it was worth. The first time, my wife thought it was whoever had the most Zealots and kept buying them. The second game, I miscounted how many Zealots I had and my wife got 4 points out of the deal when she ended the game earlier than I would have liked.

Also, the reveal 3 and trash 1 never ever worked out in my favor (I was the only one who played them as an action). My wife got to trash at least 2 curses this way.

Also, also, because this card doesn't give you any real benefit as an action and is a variable point value, it is really really weak.

I really like the card idea, but it does seem too confusing and too much to try to keep track of. Ah well, back to the drawing board.
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