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Risk 2210 A.D.» Forums » Variants

Subject: Venus map Prototype! rss

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mar hawkman
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I sketched a prototype on notebook paper and uploaded a slightly edited picture of it into the photo gallery. Now to wait for it to actually show up....

It's mostly water. There's two land continents and 10 water. I haven't named the territories yet. But there's a set of 5 that I'm planning on nameing after big oil companies.

Well, the BGG admins decided it wasn't worthy. So I stuck it on flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11951562@N08/3733066040/

questions? comments? Snide remarks?
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Kolja Geldmacher
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Other than that there never will be any fluid water on Venus, how much terraforming you will do what so ever... no.
You could though treat every territorie as Water since a human needs a protective enviroment, on Venus like in the depths of our oceans. But i doubt that this would work game-wise, so maybe venus as is maybe a not so good idea. If you wanna go fictional, do it all the way and go for Ringworld or some kind of big Spacestation to conquer, with starships moving around the solar system like the comet-idea that was somewhere here on this forum. I realy don't want to discourage you, understand me right. This should not be beating of any kind, i am just putting out my 2 cents here...
Sorry if i sound to harsh, this is not intentional, i am not a native speaker
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mar hawkman
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Hehe... thank you. It doesn't help much, but it's nice to get comments anyways.

I wouldn't say, never. Venus's temperature is due more to the properties of it's atmosphere than to the amount of light it receives. I'm not saying the terrain is the same as Earth but it's more like Earth than Venus is right now.arrrh

Actually I'm gonna give Venus a moon that's a space station complex. I forgot to draw that earlier.

edit:And yes this IS being specifically designed to work with Galactic Risk. I LOOOVVEE the concept of Galactic Risk. (even though the name is a misnomer)

EDIT2: I finished doing a preliminary version of the satellites. http://www.flickr.com/photos/11951562@N08/3739680119/

The red marks are the landing zones. The blue ones are teleporters. I didn't draw pad to pad connections because there's 3 and each leads to to all the others. And yes the yellow scaffold thing connects the landing pad on the orange one with the central core only.

EDIT3: Next I'm gonna start doing minor planets. I've sketched ideas for Pluto/Charon/Nyx/Hydra and Eris/Dysnomia.
 
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Steven Shaw
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Looks interesting. Why so much water though?
 
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mar hawkman
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Nobody'd done it yet. Most of the new maps have LESS water than Earth. So I made one with more. What else do you think about it?
 
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Rodrigo Baldin
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Thinking on Galatics, what do you think about "create" a teletransport that would allow free moves through it, than it would be easier to conquest some territories.

I mean, we have:

Earth > Moon > Mars > Mars Moons > Asteroids Belt > Io > Europe > Venus

In a team game (remember?) a group starts normally in Earth and another starts at Venus or Io, wherever, following the normal rules as well. So there's two groups, one in each side of the table, and each player has a mission, It can be "Conquer two continents in your home planet, a colony in moon and two more continents in diferent planets of your choice", for example. Players must make their jobs in their homeplanets, but they are forced to go abroad, wich means that in a certain moment, both worlds collide. In order to have free ways, the ideia of "create" a teletransport in any place, as in Venus, but by activating a command card, maybe Tech, is pretty interesting.

Well...
 
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mar hawkman
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hmm... interesting. Maybe an upgrade to the spaceport things?

BTW, IRL it goes in this order: Venus > Earth > Moon > Mars > Mars Moons > Asteroids Belt > Io > Europa(not Europe)



BTW do you guys think I might have gone overboard on the water?
 
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Steven Shaw
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I know I wouldn't really be interested in playing a game where it was absolutely critical to keep the water commander alive. As a standalone board, I don't like the idea. As part of galactic risk (which I've never actually played) it might be very cool.
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K Septyn
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The constructive criticism:
If you want different, don't go for a mostly-water route on Venus. Europa's the more logical choice for that, but since it's been taken already.... At any rate, the water territories of the 2210 map are there to bypass some of the traditional chokepoints (Alaska-Kamchatka, Iceland-Greenland, for example)--but the bypass has the price of buying a water commander. A mostly-water map means you're forced to keep your water commander alive, as was noted above, and forced decisions aren't fun decisions.

There are too many continents, and they're too similar in size. It makes none of them more valuable or interesting than the others.

The topology feels way off. The original Risk map is a study in triangles and interconnections. Make a rough drawing of the original map with lines and circles and you'll see what I mean. That Io map (just saw it for the first time tonight) makes similar mistakes with topology--the lower lava colony continent is a straight string of territories, as is the upper green land continent.


Suggestions:
Maybe in the 2210 world, terraforming efforts have made some parts of the land marginally habitable for troops (the plain land sections), and the rest of it is so bad that you need either the space or the tech commander to fight and survive. No water at all is the way to go for a Venus map, in my opinion. It wouldn't be out of the question to have an absurd number of devestation markers on the map. either.

There are topological maps of Venus available online for free, I imagine. Use them as a foundation and inspiration for laying territories. I know the Mars map used the actual terrain of the planet to determine where the water was--you can line up the Mars map with a very similar topo map with water added and see the similarities. (See here).

There are online Risk games with user-made maps. I'd recommend looking at the popular/most-downloaded maps and see if there's anything in them that strikes your fancy.
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mar hawkman
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Mmmm... Finally some real food for thought.

So a quick summarization of things I need to work on:

1: I did go overboard on the water. Needs more land.
1b: it might be best if the land territories actually connected with each other. Maybe a long string of mountain ranges?
1c: alternately(after looking at 3b) have some conencted and certain ones just out in the middle of the ocean.

2: I made things too uniform. It needs more variety in continent sizes.

3: Doesn't connect in any way with the way Venus is. It's topology is too artificial looking.
3b: Ooooohhhh, pretty! : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Map_of_Ve...
3c: Maybe treat the yellow/red parts as land? Yes the blue parts are the ones that are less than the average elevation, but it wouldn't be a water world if the average elevation was Sea level.
3d: oddly enough(total coincidence) there is a terrain feature on venus shaped much like the "Paramece" continent on my map. surprise Though it'd be connected to another landmass if we use idea 3c. In case anyone is wondering I drew Paramece to have a similar outline to a Paramecium.(a kind of single celled life form)

4: people still don't like the ocean idea on Venus. redefining the non-land as something else kinda works, but having it as solid terrain you need a tech commander for seems bit extreme, but it'd be new and new is good. I'm still iffy here.

Some more questions from me:
a: So what do you guys think of the space station complex?
a1: One idea I had was somewhat non-traditional continent bonuses. The construction yard would give you and extra mod, the power plant extra energy, and the orbital apartment building would give you a bonus in making it so you are treated as having more territories than you actually do.

b: How is 12 continents too many? Earth has 6 land continents (7 with antarctica) and 5 water for a total of 11(or 12). I suppose if I put in more land I could take out one or two water groups.

c: What is "an absurd number of devastation markers"?
Default is 4. Mars has ~58 land territories. That's ~1/15. Earth has 42 land territories thus making it's ratio ~1/10. add too many and water routes would become absolutely Essential! Hmm... In hindsight my Venus map needs more territories. I just counted and realized it has 49 total... Hmm... If I did go and actually get rid of the water... (which sounds stupid) 4 would give ~1/12. Which isn't bad.

Lets see...
1 land route into Australia, 3 total but only 2 invasion points.
5 land routes into Africa, 7 total, but only 3 invasion points.
2 land routes into Samerica, 5 total, only 2 invasion points.
3 land routes into Namerica, 6 total, 5!! invasion points.
8 land routes into europe, 9 total, 6!! invasion points.
7 land routes into asia, 10 total, 8!! invasion points.

Double the number of devastation markers and 1/5 territories get nuked. The only places with invasion points that don't matter are Europe and especially asia. Most of the other points will lead to radical gameplay changes. Such as nuking either the Amazon(3) or the Sahara(4). Either makes it MUCH easier to defend the continent. Or (God help us, but I've seen it happen) Java. that one makes defending Australia to be pathetically easy. ~60% of land territories are invasion points. The exception is Europe where only 2 territories are NOT invasion points(75%). So... take out 5 invasion points(statistical average if you use 8 markers) and that would change things radically. Imagine if Tunguska, Mexico, Sahara, Ukrainya, and Java all got nailed.... Yeesh. Middle East would be the most heavily contested territory in the game. And you'd need a navy to invade Samerica or Australia. What does this have to do with Venus? The point I'm getting at is that too many teritory connections is a bad thing. Too few is just as bad. drop 8 Dmarkers on Earth and you're gonna have a lot of problems. But doing that on Venus might work if you specially designed the map with that in mind.

Whew! that was long!

d: Anyways. as for the naval commander thing... Maybe have a special rule for this map? you don't need a naval commander for naval warfare? As interesting as the tech commander idea is, it's still the same sort of forced decision. If playing this as the only map you'd start with a mix of land and water territories.

e: assuming I do go with 3c it'd make sense to have devastation markers in water as well as land.
 
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mar hawkman
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New map version! http://www.flickr.com/photos/11951562@N08/3762910882/

Check it out!
 
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aaszman
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I've had sketches for a Venus map for almost two years now. I'm not good on photoshop or whatever you need to map those awesome maps so I never fulfilled my idea. I have underground city territories for about a 1/3 of the map, near the equator cause after doing some research it can get really hot yet be hundreds of degrees below zero in the north and south regions. I have most to all the water, under ground territories named. Most of all the territories are named for the regions on Venus now. I just dont have the skills to make this map. My map has much more land territory cause being a hott planet, water isnt going to be an abundant resource. Tell me what you guys think!!! I can scan what I have done already, for a basis, if someone wants to move forward to make it like a Mars or Io map.
 
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mar hawkman
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Mars and Io are taken already.

But, please show us what you did.
 
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mar hawkman
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Not bad. it is kinda vague on how things should be connected though. But over all it is decent.
 
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aaszman
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I know, I have another map where I was working on the connections between everything.
 
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mar hawkman
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Post it! the more the merrier.
 
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mar hawkman
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I'm planning on finishng this project soon and want to get some feedback from you guys.

Normally a land commander is only needed to play land command cards. I'm considering making it so that (on Venus only) he's needed to invade Land territories.

vice versa with the Naval Commander. He's not going to be needed on Venus except to play Naval Command cards.

Oh and devastation markers go in the water not on land. Or maybe have one on land and the rest in the water?

Rationale? Terraforming Venus only halfway worked. It's livable under water, but it's 120 degrees in the shade with near 100% humidity on land all over the planet. Yeah, they planted jungles, but only bugs and lizards can take the heat. Thus it's simply easier for people to live in the oceans on Venus. With seaweed and fish farming and stuff like that...

So what do you guys think about that idea?
 
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Miguel Tron
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Love it, I'm so excited to see a final version of this, I liked the re-vamped version of Venus on the flicker feed. Plus, excellent inclusion of the satellites orbiting the planet
 
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Miguel Tron
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Don't know how close to finished you are, but one idea as far as the nature of water territories is to possibly turn them into floating cities. As in floating in the clouds.

Would give the map a very unique appeal when compared to Earth, IO, Europa, etc.

Sci-fi rationale: Terra-forming only worked part of the way (as previously stated ). The top layer of Venus' poisonous and volatile atmosphere was cleared away leaving small exposed continents, which are rich in vegetation and habitable for humans. Further colonization efforts resulted in aerial floating cities over the vast "sea" of noxious gas (Bespin-esque).

I like the rule variant as far as no necessary water commander except for cards, and it being necessary to have a land commander to attack land.
 
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mar hawkman
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YAY! People care!

Anyways, I was thinking about doing the floating city idea, but it just didn't feel right given the semi-postapocalyptic theme of the game. For a territory it'd need to be HUGE. not a town or even 2 but somethign the size of new york city....
 
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O. Ahmed
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I like the land commander idea. I think it would actually force players to be more purposeful with each action. I also like the partially successful terraforming idea. I used the same thing for Io and I like the idea that space expansion past Mars get much harder.
 
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mar hawkman
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Hiya, Teleute! ^_^ thanks for reminding me I still need to finish this.

what do you think of the special bonuses attached to the orbital facilities? Part of the idea behind them is that they are the remnants of the Terraforming equipment. The orbital powerstation to power it, the construction facility to build the things that were being placed planetside, and finally the giant apartment building to house the workers(the one shaped like a soda can).
 
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O. Ahmed
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It sounds interesting, especially since players with different needs will focus on different facilities. For example, the person who spends all his energy as soon as they get it might be attracted to the energy facility. I also like the story aspect. I am using all the Risk 2210 maps as the setting for a tabletop RPG and this gives me a whole new setting. ^_^
 
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mar hawkman
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Interesting idea. I'd love to hear more.
 
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Miguel Tron
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marhawkman wrote:
YAY! People care!

Anyways, I was thinking about doing the floating city idea, but it just didn't feel right given the semi-postapocalyptic theme of the game. For a territory it'd need to be HUGE. not a town or even 2 but somethign the size of new york city....



Let me clarify. I'm not talking about a planet sized city or expansion with this. Rather, each "water" territory would be an individual city, with graphics potentially stolen from cloud city. And instead of a blue ocean of water, use swirling beige, brown or something of that nature.

Thoughts everyone?
 
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