Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Steam» Forums » Rules

Subject: Towns...yes, towns again! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Lance Moody
United States
Mason
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gosh,the towns are confusing to me (and apparently a few other folks as well). I'm hoping that someone can clear up a few things in reference to them.

The short version of what follows is this:

Is a plain town hex (like those preprinted on the maps)considered to be connected to a track if that track dead ends into one of its 6 sides (like cities)?

====

1. As is obvious from the rules, etc, cities hexes do not contain track. They are always assumed to have 6 connections (unless terrain disallows). One merely has to run track up to one of the sides of a city hex to be connected to that city. I hope it is safe to assume that one can just run track up to the edge of a town hex and be connected to that town?

2. But there are a lot of tiles that run track into a town (and through it and so forth). So what are those for?

Let's say I have a link from City A to Town A. There are two hexes between these two and I have 2 straight tracks running through those hexes. I have (I think) a link.

Now let's say on a future round I build a track that runs from City B to Town A. Again, I am not putting any track into the Town A hex (I am assuming that I don't have to). Am I now connected City A to City B via two links?

Or do I have this all wrong?

Do towns HAVE to have track built into them using an actual track/town hex piece in order to form a link?

If so, I must say the rules are woefully unclear on this.

Many thanks in advance,

Lance
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jesse McGatha
United States
Sammamish
Washington
flag msg tools
admin
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Town hexes only have links out of them as shown in the tile (none initially on the board). You don't make a link from the city to the town until you place a tile on top of the town (using 1 of your 3 track builds) with the appropriate track connecting to the track you are extending.

Later, when you want to build from another city into that town, you have to upgrade the town tile that is already there from the first link, in such a way that all previous links are maintained. You must pay for the replacing tile at a cost of the number of links on the replacement tile plus 1 for the town (no terrain costs).

Make sense?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Bennett
United States
Newton
Iowa
flag msg tools
badge
Why did the painter paint the wall for free? Because it was on the house.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lancemoody wrote:

Do towns HAVE to have track built into them using an actual track/town hex piece in order to form a link?


Yes. If you look in the rules on page 2 at the bottom of the first column under "Game Ideas", it defines what a link is and gives examples using a diagram. The diagram shows that completed links to towns require the use of the track/town hex tiles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance Moody
United States
Mason
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, thanks much! It does make sense. It is unfortunate that the rules make no mention of this (indeed referring to city and town connections in the same sentences as though they were the same). This may be a matter of folks being very used to AOS and not realizing that something might be confusing to new player like me. At any rate many thanks!

And if I am wrong and this issue is clearly stated somewhere in the rules, kindly point me there.

Lance


In reference to the mention of page 2: this may be clear to someone smarter than me but what I see is a diagram in which the above idea (that connecting to a town is MUCH different than connecting to a city) is not in any way explained.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Dewsbery
United Kingdom
Sutton Coldfield
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Would it have helped for you to think of it in this way? That cities are big, and fill a whole hex, but towns are smaller, occupying only a small circle in the centre of the hex? Once you have that idea in your mind, much confusion should go away.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Snooze Fest
United States
Hillsborough
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
We love our pups!! Misu, RIP 28 Nov 2010. Tikka, RIP 11 Aug 2011.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Along those lines, and I mean this seriously (i.e., I'm not just trying to be an ass!), does looking at the board not help? The city fills up the entire hex, and when you stick a track next to it it is visually connected to the city. The town is sitting there in the middle of a hex all by itself; it's not physically connected to a track tile in the next hex over. But if you use one of the many town tiles included in the game, you can see a physically contiguous set of tracks connecting to the town.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance Moody
United States
Mason
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the replies!

I understand the way it works now.

As to learning the rules of a game by just looking at the board, I don't think I'm at that level yet--the action tiles are "explained" right there on the board but I sure am glad they went into some detail in the rule book.

To my way of thinking, the rules should be revised to mention how this works...I certainly plan to explain it when teaching the game to new players, I don't know how one can avoid doing so.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Webb
United States
Western Mitten
flag msg tools
designer
badge
GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
snoozefest wrote:
Along those lines, and I mean this seriously (i.e., I'm not just trying to be an ass!), does looking at the board not help? The city fills up the entire hex, and when you stick a track next to it it is visually connected to the city. The town is sitting there in the middle of a hex all by itself; it's not physically connected to a track tile in the next hex over. But if you use one of the many town tiles included in the game, you can see a physically contiguous set of tracks connecting to the town.


I was surprised that Mayfair didn't choose a more graphically distinct town symbol when they released Steam. I can see where first time players could have trouble differentiating the two because, at a glance, they are very similar. Given that the symbol for the town remained the same as it was in AoS on the tiles, it seems strange that they opted for a much different look on the board.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Bart
United States
Winnetka
California
flag msg tools
designer
Baseball been bery bery good to me
badge
This is a picture of a published game designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Please look at all the example pictures in the rules, then ask your questions in the context of those pictures.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lance Moody
United States
Mason
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In other words, this is not the place to ask stupid questions about this game? Thanks!

There are some people who believe that examples are not rules but examples of rules. And from my experience with hundreds of games, most people writing rules agree with this and the best rules follow this idea.

On the bottom page 7 a player has built a track from Hartford towards New Haven. He is then trying to build a track that extends through New Haven (but this is illegal). Before I had the rule explained to me above, I wasn't sure if he had a link to New Haven after removing the illegal tile. But that is just because I am worthlessly dense--I am sure that you are correct and the rules are perfect as they stand.

I have found that the best game rules try cover things that even hilariously dumb people like me are confused about.

Another example of poor communication (at least to a moron like me) in these rules is how bidding is covered. In the standard game it is specifically mentioned that you may bid $0. In the base game, this is not spelled out. A dumb ass like me asks why.

Thanks for the super helpful remarks, however!

Lance
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonas
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
lancemoody wrote:
Another example of poor communication (at least to a moron like me) in these rules is how bidding is covered. In the standard game it is specifically mentioned that you may bid $0. In the base game, this is not spelled out. A dumb ass like me asks why.

Thanks for the super helpful remarks, however!

Lance


First off I have no idea why someone is up in arms to another person asking a question. But to the bidding I will try and give an accurate answer to the question.
The bidding in the base game is just done once at the beginning of the game, and someone either random or determined either wants in the bid by choosing 1 or higher, or doesn't want in the bid and declines.
In the standard game the starting bidder is the person who chose the first player tile in an earlier round, The tile gives them a couple of privelages almost sort of like 2 passes in the bid round so this allows them to bid 0 (Pass) and another time around they can either bid up or turn in their Tile to Pass again. So the reason for allowing 0 bid is sort of giving a privelage to the 1st bidder of the round.
I don't think this was in the Age of Steam game, i am fairly certain you had to atleast bid 1. Martin Wallace probably felt that there needed to be an added bonus for being first and came up with the idea of a second pass ability by letting them bid 0

Jonas
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Reed
United States
Littleton
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If it makes you feel better my group had the same question. Thanks all for the answer. IMO (and those of my group that are game designers), a rule that important should be actually stated, not implied by an example. Not really sure why certain people got so offended...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.