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Subject: Expansions? rss

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Wendell
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I like the separation of expansions from games. But defining things is tough.

In my collection, Patton in Flames and America in Flames both appear as expansions. They are part of the World in Flames universe and can be added to WIF. However, both are also stand-alone games - you can play Patton or America in Flames with NO other WIF sets. For that matter, Days of Decision III can ALSO be played separately with NO other WIF components or rules. (The other WIF-related items ARE expansions that can't be used alone.)

So should such items count as expansions, or as separate (related) games?

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Brandon Pennington
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expansions are in both lists on my page.
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John Earles
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Yeah... there is definately some wonky categorization going on. My "expansions" include:

YINSH
Runebound (Second Edition)
Empire Builder
India Rails
Zooloretto

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Robert
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It's nice to see expansions separated, in theory, but how do we fix things that aren't really expansions, now that that actually matters for something? Having all the Gipf series games marked expansions is silly, even if it is a possible way to use them (whereas the three additional "Gipf Sets" are clearly published as expansions). Someone also has SPQR marked as an expansion, but it's still just another standalone game in a series. At least, there is no base game to say that I have if SPQR is an expansion, unlike, say, Dominion, where there is a clear base game with expansions, even if some of the expansions can be standalone...

If expansions don't mean expansions, I'm in the same boat as before and will avoid listing/rating my expansions in the db. Only difference is that now it's because it will hide real games, instead of before where it was to avoid cluttering my games list with non-games.

Is there something we can do, or will it just produce a pointless back-and-forth between people that think certain things are expansions and others saying they are not?
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Scott Alden
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Looks like an incorrect linkage messed these up. I'll work in for admins to remove the 'expansion' status.
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Wendell
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Aldie wrote:
Looks like an incorrect linkage messed these up. I'll work in for admins to remove the 'expansion' status.


Well, that's the rub - these two games are both useable as stand-alone games AND can be used in conjunction with WIF. They are both games in their own right, AND expansions. Anyway to indicate that?
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Randall Bart
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Clearly there needs to be a middle category for expansions that are also standalone. An extreme case is DaVinci's Challenge Card Game. It is a set of cards to use as an expansion to DaVinci's Challenge. It also contains rules for using the deck as a standalone game, but it appears to be an afterthought. They took rules for a game like The Great Dalmuti, and stuck them in the box, but this deck is not well suited to the game. Is it really a standalone game?
 
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Bill H
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I love this change!

Can we get an Expansion Exclusion button on the widget page, please?


I think we could use 3 filters on the Collection and Advanced Game Search pages:
1. Boardgames
2. Boardgame Expansions only
3. Boardgames and Expansions

Most games would only appear in 1 and 3, most expansions would appear in 2 and 3, and those expansions that are also stand-alone games should appear under any of the 3 filters.
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Dan MacDonald

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Mind War is also incorrectly listed as an expansion.
 
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Mik Svellov
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Naval War is NOT an expansion.

Advanced Heroquest is NOT an expansion.
It is a selfcontained game from GW that includes a small variant in which you may use material from HeroQuest from MB.

Carcassonne: Hunters and Gatherers can't even be used together with the original!

The following games are all self-contained spinn-offs that may be used together their parent games:
Sole Mio!
Railroad Dice: Germany
Mamma Mia! Plus
Dominion: Intrigue
 
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Michael T. Probst
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Shijuro wrote:
I love this change!

I think we could use 3 filters on the Collection and Advanced Game Search pages:
1. Boardgames
2. Boardgame Expansions only
3. Boardgames and Expansions

Most games would only appear in 1 and 3, most expansions would appear in 2 and 3, and those expansions that are also stand-alone games should appear under any of the 3 filters.



I like your thinking but ...

If we should seperate I would use following three categories:
1. Boardgames
2. Boardgames Expansions only
3. Boardgames Expansions which could also stand-alone

Every game and expansion would fit in one of the three!!!


Or we'll start to discuss about "boardgames" first: Is Heroscape really a boardgame? Or Dominion? Or Race to the Galaxy? Where's the board???
devil shake
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Jason Miller
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my two cents... If you can play a game by itself, it's not an expansion, it is it's own game. People who see the game description should be able to figure out that it's compatible with something else. Creating another category of games somewhere between games and expansions will only confuse newer users and make the database more ungainly. This wouldn't be an improvement, in my books games.
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Simon Lundström
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wifwendell wrote:
Well, that's the rub - these two games are both useable as stand-alone games AND can be used in conjunction with WIF. They are both games in their own right, AND expansions. Anyway to indicate that?


There are many games that are both Stand-alone and an expansion. I am sure Aldie takes this into account.

Obviously some games are incorrectly flagged as "expansion", and there we have the problem. I am sure games could be flagged as "base game" and "expansion" at the same time, and would thus show up in both lists. No problem.
 
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Brian M
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A few I've noticed showing up in expansions that shouldn't be:

Last Night on Earth
Castle of Magic
Runebound (1st edition)
Zombies!!!

And a few that are full games, but also part of a line of games:
Adeptus Titanicus
G.E.V.
 
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Adam McD
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Kestril wrote:
my two cents... If you can play a game by itself, it's not an expansion, it is it's own game. People who see the game description should be able to figure out that it's compatible with something else. Creating another category of games somewhere between games and expansions will only confuse newer users and make the database more ungainly. This wouldn't be an improvement, in my books games.

I second this.
 
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Marco Marandola
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I get Tanhauser as an expansion and also Bang The Bullet.

I don't know if it's the right plce to ask this but I've notice that the play's are also split but if I click on all expansion plays it give's me all games would it be possible to get only the acctual expansion plays??

Also it' says that I own 6 expansion but there are 7 games when I check th list
 
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Lisa Bjornseth
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I would rather be able to see core boardgames without expansions than expansions without core boardgames. But it looks like filtering on 'Board Games' gives me everything and filtering on 'Board Game Expansions' gives me just expansions.
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Peter Folke
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Kestril wrote:
my two cents... If you can play a game by itself, it's not an expansion, it is it's own game. People who see the game description should be able to figure out that it's compatible with something else. Creating another category of games somewhere between games and expansions will only confuse newer users and make the database more ungainly. This wouldn't be an improvement, in my books games.


I agree.
When I search the database my default expectation would be that the definition of "expansion" is that I'd need another game to play it.
 
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Samuel Sol
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I would wait for RPG Geek, so everyone can see how this things were done there and try to ask the Gods to convert everything on this side to that one
 
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Scott Petersen
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I would also like the view that excludes expansions from a the Board Games list.
 
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Also listed as an expansion when it is really a stand-alone expansion:

Knightmare Chess 2
 
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