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Subject: Communications moving a ship twice? rss

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Todd France
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Sorry if it's been gone over before, but I can't find the answer: Can you use Communications to move the same ship twice, like you can use Command to activate a Viper twice? As I read it the implication is that you cant, but then again, I'd say the same thing about Command.
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brian
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No. You are looking at two distinct ships and then may move them. That means move each one once, not two ship moves as when you are dealing with Vipers from Command.
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
No. You are looking at two distinct ships and then may move them. That means move each one once, not two ship moves as when you are dealing with Vipers from Command.
This seems right, but could you reference source for this (other than yourself of course cool )?


... I'd say chalk up another thing I've gotten wrong.
 
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brian
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I have no ruling reference but the abilities themselves. Like I said, look at the two locations to compare and contrast.

Command Action: Activate up to 2 unmanned vipers.

Communications Action: Look at the back of 2 civilian ships. You may then move them to adjacent area(s).


With Command, you get to activate "up to 2" vipers. This has already been clarified to make sure everyone understands you get 2 activations and they may be used on two separate vipers for one activation each, or one viper with two activations.

Communications is NOT worded the same. It says "look at ... 2" civies. OK, so you could look at one if you really want, or you could look at the same ship twice (in case you forgot!). After looking at them, you may move them to an adjacent space. It doesn't say you get "2 moves" you get to look and those you look at may move to an adjacent space. So to me, this is crystal clear that it is not granting you the same action as Command was.

So given that's all I got, what is the rationale that it would be different?
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Todd France
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I guess the rationale is that there's no logical reading of the Command location that would indicate that the same viper may be activated twice, so why should we apply that rigorous standard to Communications.

I certainly think that your answer is the justifiable ruling, but justifiable ruling and intent are not always the same.
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Gary Laporte
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While we're at it, Apollo's ability to activate 6 unmanned vipers does allow him to activate 6 times the same viper, right? Because it's not obvious at all in the french translation of the card.
 
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LNAGary wrote:
While we're at it, Apollo's ability to activate 6 unmanned vipers does allow him to activate 6 times the same viper, right? Because it's not obvious at all in the french translation of the card.

Yes, that has also been confirmed. Again, you getr 6 Activations. You can divide them as many or as few vipers as you see fit.
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pseudotheist wrote:
I guess the rationale is that there's no logical reading of the Command location that would indicate that the same viper may be activated twice, so why should we apply that rigorous standard to Communications.

I certainly think that your answer is the justifiable ruling, but justifiable ruling and intent are not always the same.

For one, the Command location has been clarified through an FAQ so that is your rationale to read it that way.

All I am saying is that Communications is a different function altogether. Had they said "Move up to 2 Civilian ships, then look at those you move" I would say you were able to move the same Civie twice, as it would have been the same sentance structure as the Command location.

But instead, the emphasis is on looking at the ships. It is not moving htem, it is not "activating" them. It is merely looking at them. And then if you look at them, you may move them as well to an adjacent location. So based on the ruling of the Command, I say you are certainly entitled to "look twice" at the same civie. But each look does not mean you get a move each. Looking at a ship, no matter how many times, grants you the ability to move that ship to an adjacent space.

It is not a matter of applying a rigorous standard to Communications it is simply stating the action is different enough, and the function is different enough, that you can't take the ruling of Command and apply it to Communications. And the wording is such, I don't think it is justifable to make a case for it either.

Thematically, it makes sense to me. Vipers are designed to quickly scramble and protect the fleet. Allowing the same one to quickly move two space with the same action would reflect the ability of that ship to act quickly. On the other hand, the civies are going to be slow and clumsy and more resistent to doing what the military tells them, even if it means saving their butt.

So from a rules perspective and a theme perspective, I don't see how Communications should be justified in the same way as Command.
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Todd France
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O.k. But as the name implies, it's in the FAQ because the designer or publisher has been asked.

I would also argue that it's quite possible that Communications reads differently from Command because there was a need to define "activating" a Viper in the rulebook, and they figured that it would save space to print the equivalent for ship "activation" on the board instead. So, while it might have intended to read "activate up to 2 civilian ships" where "activating a civilian ship" is defined as "look at the ship an you may choose to move it to an adjacent space", that could have been lost in the translation.

I don't know the designer's intent for the Communications location.
I DO know the designer's intent for the Command location (which, while not the same, is similar) does not match the wording on the board, or in the rulebook.
Therefore, I think it would be reasonable to confirm the designer's intent.
 
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brian
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pseudotheist wrote:
I don't know the designer's intent for the Communications location.

I would argue the intent is clear in the wording as written. No one is questioning Weapons Control because it is clear. To me, this is the same.

I have no problem with someone going to clarify it with him. I personally don't feel it is necessary and I am not keen to continually bother him via email except when I think it necessary. But anyone can go through the FFG question form if they feel it is that unclear.
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Todd France
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I have seen cases in other FFG games where the "official" FFG response has been completely different than the game designer's response, so I figure a direct line is always better, but I've gone ahead and sent it in. I'll update when/if I get a reply (for the one other guy who thinks there might be some ambiguity).
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brian
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pseudotheist wrote:
I have seen cases in other FFG games where the "official" FFG response has been completely different than the game designer's response...

Unfortunately, that happens regularly, not just at FFG but other publishers that contract out designs (I am thinking of Red November and DOW's Colosseum). However, Corey is an FFG employee so his answer is the official FFG answer. No worries that the company will come in and contradict him.
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Todd France
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Officially confirmed:
Corey wrote:
Communications allows a player to look at the face of up to two civilian ships. He may then move each of these ships into an adjacent area.

In other words, he may not move the same civilian more than once.

I hope this answers your question!
-Corey Konieczka
Fantasy Flight Games
Game Design and Development

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brian
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Thanks for the update.
 
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