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Subject: 20 July Design Diary Entry rss

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Rachel Simmons
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http://www.simmonsgames.com/products/Gettysburg/diary/Entry2...
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Jon
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
Very interesting reading. Thanks for posting it.

I was wondering to myself whether the previous games' colours would be used for "Gettysburg" or not. I guess that answers that! I think you came to a wise conclusion.
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Seth Owen
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
The Blue and Gray color scheme has a strong history behind it, but the red and blue scheme is much more in keeping with the battle map "look" that's so important to Bowen's presentation, so I am glad he kept it.
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Pete Belli
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
Interesting!

Thank you for offering another glimpse of your outstanding prototype.

Were you inviting suggestions or are you just giving us a sneak peek at your fascinating new game?
 
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Erin Sparks
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
Did you ever consider pictures of the states (i.e. a Michigan icon in the shape of Michigan rather than Michigan's state flag)? I would recognize that more easily than flags, even though the flags do look pretty cool. Some of them look a little similar to each other.
 
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Matt R
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
Wow. Now I'm *really* excited about the next diary entry!

Bowen, I really liked your chevron idea too but your reasons for not going with them makes sense within the context of your design docs. I do like the beat-up looking two and one strength infantry blocks.

But what *really* makes me wonder about are exactly what new gameplay goodies may end up being added now that each infantry and cavalry block will have its commander's name on it... This gives me some ideas:

1) May be able to simply dispense with the metal commander pieces.
2) I wonder if any penalties may be added if a group of blocks involved in the same attack or defense happened to originate from different commands?

There is no reason to answer - guessing what you're up to in your design Bowen is more fun than trying to guess what presents I'll be getting for Christmas... The fun is in the guess-work and anticipation.

Thanks for the update Bowen!

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Rachel Simmons
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
pete belli wrote:
Interesting!

Thank you for offering another glimpse of your outstanding prototype.

Were you inviting suggestions or are you just giving us a sneak peek at your fascinating new game?


Most of the time I'm just posting information about the game design process, although I occasionally specifically invite opinions. That said, if you have an opinion, you should always feel free to offer it whether it has been invited or not.
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Henri Harju
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
Hmm.. are the full strength infantry units considered to have 3 strength (like in NT) or 2 (like the number of flags indicates)?
 
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Russ Williams
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
diary entry wrote:
At this point you might begin to wonder if I’m not just yanking your chain a little here: teasing you with ideas for changes and then just saying “Just kidding!” and going back and doing things the way I’ve done them before.

Not at all. Quite the opposite. I really enjoy reading descriptions of the design/brainstorm/iteration process! Thanks for posting these notes.

(And I am happy you decided to keep the square cross sections instead of going to the taller-when-standing style, which did indeed sound clunky and less appealing. Also sounds like a good call to use clearly visible red instead of neutral gray for the Confederate pieces.)


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Julian Steindorfer
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
i hope this frequence of posting new articels does not stop, give us more stuff to read!!!
 
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Pete Belli
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
Quote:
Most of the time I'm just posting information about the game design process, although I occasionally specifically invite opinions. That said, if you have an opinion, you should always feel free to offer it whether it has been invited or not.


Thank you! As a devoted Civil War geek I'm excited about your innovative new game.

The use of the state flags is an interesting technique but it might be questionable on several levels:

#1) They could make the playing pieces look "busy" and cluttered.

#2) While there is certainly some historical justification for using state flags in a Civil War game an accurate selection of flags might jumble the issue instead of adding to the historical theme... the famous Iron Brigade featured units from different states, the famous Texas Brigade included an Arkansas regiment, etc.

#3) As another contributor mentioned, some state flags are hard to differentiate. The flag images would be quite tiny on the playing pieces, making indentification even more difficult. As amorphous colored rectangles they do function as some sort of symbol; as a representation of a state flag they could fizzle.

#4) The flags add another layer of information that would need to be absorbed by new players. Instead of easily understood numbers or symbols a new player would have to think about state flags; stuff like this can be a distraction.

The flags add a little historical flavor at what might be a high cost in graphic clarity and ease of play.

Thank you again for inviting these suggestions.

I look forward to playing your exciting new game, state flags or no state flags.

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Devin Reed
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
I hope each flag is not an individual sticker. Then again, I stickered Commands and Colours:Ancients + 2 CC:A expansions. So, I'm sure I'd do the same for your new game.

I do enjoy your design diaries. I can't wait for the next.


 
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Rachel Simmons
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
One thing I think I should make clear: to play the game, a player only has to be able to count how many flags are on a block; he never has to identify what state they represent. Also, it is one sticker per block; flags are not separate stickers.
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Erin Sparks
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
Oh I understood that the identity of the state didn't affect gameplay, I just thought state outlines would be easier to tell apart without squinting.
 
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Russ Williams
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
rockhpi wrote:
Oh I understood that the identity of the state didn't affect gameplay, I just thought state outlines would be easier to tell apart without squinting.

Good thing Colorado and Wyoming weren't participating in the Civil War.
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Fabian Mainzer
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
I'm afraid I have to say I do not like this design choice very much. I found the simple yet elegant design of the BaM/NT blocks far superior in both aesthetics and practicability.
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Doug Epperson
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
Braunschweig wrote:
I'm afraid I have to say I do not like this design choice very much. I found the simple yet elegant design of the BaM/NT blocks far superior in both aesthetics and practicability.


This is my most anticipated game to date.


I have to totally disagree with Braunschweig on the use of State Flags. Anyone who has studied the American Civil War understands the significant of State Flags. During heated battles, State Flags were used to signify which units were taking part in the action and more importantly, they were used as a guidon visually signaling the commander’s oral instructions and by acting as a reference point for aligning his units. If you have any doubt on the use of State Flags, go visit the Battlefield in Gettysburg. State Flag memorials are everywhere. Please continue with your masterpiece.

I live only 20 miles from the High Water Mark. I would like to give homage to those who lost their lives in this horrific battle by playing my first game of Guns of Gettysburg somewhere on the battlefield (with US Park Services approval of course).

What a bully event that would be!

Epp
 
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Fabian Mainzer
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
I don't doubt the importance of state flags at Gettysburg (or any other ACW battle), however, the regimental flags in Napoleonic battles were quite important as well. I am a total fan of putting historical flags nearly anywhere where possible, but I do feel that it doesn't do the simple elegance of the BaM/NT blocks any good. Plus, I don't like the use of stickers.

Of course, this is just nitpicking (and to have at least one dissenting voice ), I'm gonna buy the game anyway.
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Doug Epperson
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
Braunschweig wrote:

Of course, this is just nitpicking (and to have at least one dissenting voice ), I'm gonna buy the game anyway.


I wasn't complaining either...I'm not a huge fan of stickers either. The blocks that Mr. Simmons has developed thus far are very superior in my eye to those in Napoleon. Although, in Napoleon, those standardize NATO type military symbols work perfect for the game.

I like these in GoG and silk screening the blocks would ensure longevity.

One more note...the tattered flags are so bully! Nicely done Mr. Simmons!

 
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Russ Williams
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
Braunschweig wrote:
Of course, this is just nitpicking (and to have at least one dissenting voice ), I'm gonna buy the game anyway.

I agree with you; the BaM blocks look more clean and elegant to me too, and the silkscreen tech seems more durable and pleasing than stickers.
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R Larsen
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
I think I will have to join the NATO symbol group also.blush
Maybe for Europeans the specific commander or state flags do not mean a lot - not that the Napoleonic flags (or national flags at the time) would matter very much to me in Napoleon games.
In the same way, I also prefer NATO symbols in most WWII game units (such as EastFront II), rather than a picture of a tank or a horse, etc.
Anyway, I am sure GoG will be a blast.
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Seth Owen
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Re: Yet another new diary entry (20 July)
The Union Army also had an entire system of organizational flags that might make an intersting alternative to the use of state flags for that army.

The Confederate policy was to brigade together regiments from the same state for the most part, although there were some exceptions. It was the rare CSA brigade that had regiments from more than two states.

In contrast, the federal policy was to mix states as much as possible, to the point that few brigades had even two regiments from the same state. Those brigades that were an exception (Vermont Brigade, Excelsior, Pennsylvania Reserve Division) were notable in part because they were all from the same state.

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Chris Guzy
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I am a big fan of the state flags and I hope you keep them in the game. This is a battle in the war between the STATES. I think it is brilliant to put in the state flags to represent that. It takes nothing away from the game. My only concern is the stickers that would be necessary to do this. I know there were issues with the wood blocks but an improperly placed sticker could give away the unit. My solution would to indent one side of the block to "hide the sticker".

The only one thing I would change is the cavalry flag. Correct me if I am wrong but cavalry flags are shaped differently. They look like they have a triangle cut out of them.
 
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