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Subject: Zombies, snowballs and kids getting whacked. rss

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Mike Bourgeois
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I'm in the process of making an expansion to All things Zombie about a snowball game.

Kids are playing, zombies invade the street and the kids are the first line of defense before the brain munching goes on.

In the game the kids if they are eliminated are not killed but rather get so frightened that they must leave the melee and run inside to their parents.

The zombies cannot be killed in the game... rather they slowly take cold damage from the weather and the snowballs. The colder they get the less ability they have to react to everything and eventually they just freeze solid.

Now what I'm wondering is this...

In the game the zombies would primarily attack via grappling/melee attacks. Not to kill as I said but rather to frighten. When they use a snowball they do cold damage to the children as well. What I'm wondering is if in the process of making a snowball does the zombie take more cold damage by doing it or should it be included in the cold damage inflicted by the weather?

Your thought would be appreciated.
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Steven Metzger
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Do zombies even have the mental capacity to make a snowball and throw it?
I think this is the real question you should be asking yourself :)
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Nicolás Mutis Mesa
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metzgerism wrote:
Do zombies even have the mental capacity to make a snowball and throw it?

They looked pretty capable of many more complicated chores in Plants vs. Zombies.
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That's totally unrealistic. Everybody knows zombies are incapable of the range of motion necessary to throw a snowball. Sheesh.
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Mike Bourgeois
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So what you hyuks are saying is that you don't know. Thanks... I'll keep looking for suggestions.
 
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mbourgeois wrote:
So what you hyuks are saying is that you don't know. Thanks... I'll keep looking for suggestions.

Maybe they'd have a limited number of snowball attacks? I don't know; I think these damage conditions sound a bit complicated.
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Mike Bourgeois
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zukeft wrote:
mbourgeois wrote:
So what you hyuks are saying is that you don't know. Thanks... I'll keep looking for suggestions.

Maybe they'd have a limited number of snowball attacks? I don't know; I think these damage conditions sound a bit complicated.


Might be a bit complicated... still haven't worked out how to indicate the damage. But the kids don't take the basic cold damage because they're wearing clothes that are appropriate to the weather.

Perhaps at the start of every round the zombies take a point of cold damage... when they reach a predetermined level they freeze solid.

For the damage from making snowballs... well you've made a snowball at least once in your life right? If you're not wearing gloves or mittens then your hands get cold. The question is... if you were standing out in the middle of a cold clear day... would you get colder standing out there for a minute or from making a snowball with your hands. Is the cold from the snowball a significant amount or just negligible.
 
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I like the idea of zombie point damage per round. Unfortunately I am not familiar of the mechanics in ATZ so I'm not really sure what kind of restraints you have. In the end I'd say it's up to you. For us warm-blooded folk, making a snowball makes our hands feel colder and even then it only lasts for a couple of minutes. Not sure that the zombies'd feel the same way. Maybe if they make snowballs, they could be hindered in movement, line of sight, etc.
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Matthew Kloth
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Zombies can't throw snowballs. Zombies also kill and eat people.

The theme would make more sense if it was about kids throwing snowballs at (imaginary) abominable snowmen. The (imaginary) wrestling and getting hit with (imaginary) snow boulders make more sense too.

Edit: Missed the part about ATZ. Disregard my post. I still think the theme is dumb. If it's zombies, then the kids get eaten.
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Steven Metzger
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mbourgeois wrote:
So what you hyuks are saying is that you don't know. Thanks... I'll keep looking for suggestions.
Oh, I had a good reply lined up, but I re-read your post and thought: "Zombies wouldn't throw snowballs..."

Thematically, having a snowball fight with zombies is paradoxical at best, and absurd at worst. To use a videogame analogy, this SHOULD be like a Tonberry fight (I can't believe I just referenced Tonberry).
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Mike Bourgeois
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Zombies in this case is just a sideline. I'm actually doing a snowball fight game. The zombies was an optional mission to add into the game.

I have no problems if your normal adult gets munched on... if John Q Public was added to the mission then sure he could become appetizers. I don't however have any intentions of the kids getting eaten... scared is fine... besides they run into the houses all scared... tell the folks and the folks can go out and get munched upon.

All I really wanted to know was if the zombies would take extra cold damage from making a snowball. Whether it makes sense that zombies could construct and throw them isn't really part and parcel of the game. Besides... zombies that throw snowballs and actually hit with them do extra cold related damage because the zombies are stronger than the kids and can throw harder.

Just asking for thoughts and I'm getting them so can't grouch too much... thanks.
 
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metzgerism wrote:
mbourgeois wrote:
So what you hyuks are saying is that you don't know. Thanks... I'll keep looking for suggestions.
Oh, I had a good reply lined up, but I re-read your post and thought: "Zombies wouldn't throw snowballs..."

Thematically, having a snowball fight with zombies is paradoxical at best, and absurd at worst. To use a videogame analogy, this SHOULD be like a Tonberry fight (I can't believe I just referenced Tonberry).


e.g. You attack and attack as it gets ever closer, and eventually shanks you? or in the case of zombies, eats you?

Back to the OP;

There could be some real horror in this game, especially if the kids only have so far that they can back up before they are up against a house or otherwise surrounded. Their screams either unheard or ignored (they think its just the sound of a regular snowball fight) by their parents.

I know you really want the zombies to throw snowballs... and by all means do it if that's what is calling you (maybe you're on to something - I don't think so, but hey maybe you are?) To me it'd be like having a full sized dragon in a fantasy setting using a sword and shield - It seems silly and uncharacteristic.

Consider the alternative - It's a game against time, the more you damage a zombie with snowballs, the slower it moves, but there are many of them, and they don't die, they just stop moving. You can't end a turn adjacent to a zombie or you're lunch. If properly balanced this game could be awesomely tense.

Plus one more thing- You said yourself that Kids don't take cold damage because they are wearing warm clothes... if this is the case, what effect would you even have the theoretical zombie thrown snowballs have on the kids?

Anyway, the conversations we have here on BGG...
-E
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Steven Metzger
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mbourgeois wrote:

Zombies in this case is just a sideline. I'm actually doing a snowball fight game. The zombies was an optional mission to add into the game.

I have no problems if your normal adult gets munched on... if John Q Public was added to the mission then sure he could become appetizers. I don't however have any intentions of the kids getting eaten... scared is fine... besides they run into the houses all scared... tell the folks and the folks can go out and get munched upon.

All I really wanted to know was if the zombies would take extra cold damage from making a snowball. Whether it makes sense that zombies could construct and throw them isn't really part and parcel of the game. Besides... zombies that throw snowballs and actually hit with them do extra cold related damage because the zombies are stronger than the kids and can throw harder.

Just asking for thoughts and I'm getting them so can't grouch too much... thanks.
I think that throwing the snowball should slow the zombie down, but not necessarily deal damage. That would make more sense to me for like a "charging" step to throw the snowball, because cold really isn't going to damage the zombie?

I don't know, thematically it seems like the kids are throwing snowballs less to damage and more to deter/freeze. You may want to consider a snowball not a damaging weapon and rather a slowing-down weapon.

Now, if the kids start throwing icicles...
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This whole thing reminds me of this wonderful picture by Jason Chan...

with obvious seasonal differences, of course.

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Steven Metzger
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YearoftheCat wrote:
This whole thing reminds me of this wonderful picture by Jason Chan...

with obvious seasonal differences, of course.

Clearly a tower defense game...
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Mike Bourgeois
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metzgerism wrote:
mbourgeois wrote:

Zombies in this case is just a sideline. I'm actually doing a snowball fight game. The zombies was an optional mission to add into the game.

I have no problems if your normal adult gets munched on... if John Q Public was added to the mission then sure he could become appetizers. I don't however have any intentions of the kids getting eaten... scared is fine... besides they run into the houses all scared... tell the folks and the folks can go out and get munched upon.

All I really wanted to know was if the zombies would take extra cold damage from making a snowball. Whether it makes sense that zombies could construct and throw them isn't really part and parcel of the game. Besides... zombies that throw snowballs and actually hit with them do extra cold related damage because the zombies are stronger than the kids and can throw harder.

Just asking for thoughts and I'm getting them so can't grouch too much... thanks.
I think that throwing the snowball should slow the zombie down, but not necessarily deal damage. That would make more sense to me for like a "charging" step to throw the snowball, because cold really isn't going to damage the zombie?

I don't know, thematically it seems like the kids are throwing snowballs less to damage and more to deter/freeze. You may want to consider a snowball not a damaging weapon and rather a slowing-down weapon.

Now, if the kids start throwing icicles...


Quote:
Perhaps at the start of every round the zombies take a point of cold damage... when they reach a predetermined level they freeze solid.


I'd already decided that the snowballs would just freeze the zombies once they hit a certain point in their endurance. Slowing is an idea but they moved so damned slow already... it's hardly challenging to have them move slower when the kids should easily outpace them already.

I'll admit... it's a strange idea... it would make it easier to just have the kids turn into little piles of steaming entrails with open brainpans ontop... but I keep seeing my little girl out there fighting... and it makes me feel all squirmy inside.

Icicles would be interesting but would hardly do enough damage... and the chance of penetrating the skull with one to cause and Obvious Death is so small. Mind you I already have the provision for slush/ice balls in the regular game.

And the kids do take cold damage as well. It's just that they are 'armoured' so to speak in winter clothing. Snowballs would be extra damage that the clothing wouldn't necessarily render moot.
 
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Mike Bourgeois
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YearoftheCat wrote:
This whole thing reminds me of this wonderful picture by Jason Chan...

with obvious seasonal differences, of course.



And just when I'm on a spending freeze. This is an amazing image. i think it'd be amazing downstairs in my workroom.
 
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Ralph T
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The kids are beyond screwed though. Two have limited ammo.
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ralpher wrote:
The kids are beyond screwed though. Two have limited ammo.


Maybe they are just luring all the zombie kids up onto the structure - prior to jumping off and making a run for it? It doesn't look good for them though, I agree. I used to think the kid's bat was plastic, but who knows, maybe its aluminum.
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Steven Metzger
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ralpher wrote:
The kids are beyond screwed though. Two have limited ammo.
Nah the one girl has an energy slingshot, and the other has a plasma...brick.
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Chris Shreve
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The problem here is that the boy with the bat (named Tomy, obviously), will be like "i can take them, you guys go!", but will get overrun, at which point Glasses will yell "we can't leave him!", and so and so forth.

Damn it, Tomy.
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Ralph T
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I don't think the zombies should throw snowballs. I think it should be more of a Zombies vs. Plants concept with zombies on toboggans, skates, cross country skis, bobsleds, etc.
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Mike Bourgeois
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ralpher wrote:
I don't think the zombies should throw snowballs. I think it should be more of a Zombies vs. Plants concept with zombies on toboggans, skates, cross country skis, bobsleds, etc.


Ralph, this isn't a tower defense game. It's a small skirmish game with kids throwing snowballs at each other. As an optional game/variation you can have one side replaced by zombies that have wandered onto this side street and taken the children almost unawares.

Nobody likes the zombies throwing snowballs... I get it. It can be an optional rule for the zeds. Normally the zeds will come in and rip the poor little kids to shreds... I'll attribute the violence that the zombies do in the poor little blaggerts to the many and varied suggestions from the friendly folks at BGG. (who incidentally would rather see a child die a horrible violent death than have a zombie frighten them). shake zombie zombie zombie
 
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