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Subject: Retreating into beseiged port and Diplomatic Marriage whilst being beseiged rss

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Shaun Derrick
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Two separate questions here:

6 of us played TWO games (yes TWO) of HIS last Saturday at UK ManorCon. The first game was so peaceful it left us wanting more action so we played again. The Hapsburgs won the first game on turn 4 and the Papacy won the second game on turn 2!!!

Anyway, the first question is...
1. In the second game I was the Hapsburgs with Naval Squadrons in the North Sea. I was at war with France who controlled Edinburgh, but had left it vacant. Therefore I transported an army 2 unit to beseige Edinburgh. However, France then moved Naval units into the North sea to try and dislodge my Naval units. The combat resulted in 1 remaining French Squadron needing to retreat, so he retreated into Edinburgh. I only had 1 Naval Squadron remaining in the North sea so this prevented my assault of Edinburgh. We looked in the rules to see if you can retreat into a beseiged port but found no specific ruling; so, the concensus was that the retreat was allowable. I assume we got this right?

The second question is general...
2. If a player plays Diplomatic Marriage to deactivate a Minor Power whilst the Minor Power units are under seige can the assulting force continue?
Sample situation is as follows:
Venice is allied to France. 2 French and 2 Venetian units occupy Venice - no Naval Squadrons involved.
The Ottomans, at war with France, in their last impulse, moved to beseige Venice from Trieste.
England plays 'Diplomatic Marriage' to deactivate Venice.
Strictly speaking the Ottomans are no longer at war with Venice, only France, so can they assault Venice in their next impulse. Presumably not. But, do the French units in Venice suddenly move out to their next nearest key?
 
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Dave Rubin
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1. I think you got that one right; if anything, the Erratum for naval retreats strengthens the case:
Quote:
Rule Book, Page 24, Naval Combat, Step 9, Second Sentence:
Reword to now say: "If the combat occurred in a sea zone, the loser retreats to an adjacent port under its control (free of enemy naval units) or an adjacent sea zone (also free of enemy naval units)."


2. Per 22.4, yes, the French are displaced to their nearest fortified space, likely a key.
Quote:
Units from other powers are displaced if they occupy one of these minor power home spaces that just had a control marker removed. Move land units to the nearest friendly-controlled fortified space and naval units to the nearest friendly-controlled port.
 
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Shaun Derrick
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Dave, the only reason I queried the removal of the French units was because there seems to be no other situation which allows you to move units that are under seige out of a fort. However, I guess the deactivation means that Venice is no longer under seige, releasing the French units to move elsewhere. It's all very logical with some thought, but when you first come across the situation, initial reaction is - what happens now!?
 
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Dave Rubin
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sderrick wrote:
... However, I guess the deactivation means that Venice is no longer under seige ..,


Bingo! The formerly besieging Ottomans, too, have to leave Venice. I like the way the English player thinks...
 
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Greg Forster
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sderrick wrote:
Dave, the only reason I queried the removal of the French units was because there seems to be no other situation which allows you to move units that are under seige out of a fort.


There is one other situation. If the Ottoman and Hapsburg are allied and both their troops are in the same space when Hungary falls and they go to war, they must immediately fight a field battle. But if they're together inside a besieged city, whichever power does not control the space is displaced using the same process you use in the sue for peace procedure. (If they're besieged together inside a city belonging to a third power, both are displaced.)

See: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3094473#3094473

The surprising thing to me about the rule for deactivating minor powers is that the units are not given the option to return to their capital, as they are under the sue for peace procedure (and consequently under other situations where the sue for peace procedure is used, such as when one power gives another power control of a city in the negotiation phase, or when Hungary falls and the Hapsburg and Ottoman are besieged together).
 
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