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Subject: Best RPG rules for DM-less dungeoncrawl? rss

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David Winter
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Hawarden
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Someone gave me 88gg for a rules translation and all I got was this lousy overtext
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Dungeon Bash is a ruleset that is designed to generate dungeons in the same manner as warhammer quest but with D&D rules.
Though it was made for 3.5 ed, it may be transferrable.

You do need D&D rulebooks, I think minimum PHB and DMG

I have no idea how well it works, but seems like it might be worth investigating.
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Brian M
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Thornton
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I thought 4e would be good for this to, but I haven't been happy with how its working out. (Actually we've been playing gamemastered, but our original intent was wanting a mostly Warhammer Questish experience).

Their is a huge amount of overheard required for the game; tons of power cards, character stats that require massive adjustment at regular intervals, so many things to track. Monster statblocks are so huge I get pretty tired of having to print out or type them up each game. Combat gets clunky at mid levels. Figuring out treasure has been a pain - a little bit of randomness would be nice, but its very easy to end up with completely useless items that way, and completely chosen magic items is too boring (after last game we decided to go half random, half chosen, but we haven't played since).

*Sigh* I don't know - I'm still looking for a good cooperative dungeon crawl as well, and while at first I thought 4e was great, or at least close, I now feel like it just doesn't cut it, but I really don't know what does.
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Michael J
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The D&D Minis game is a little simpler than the 4E game from a stats perspective, but retains most of the combat mechanics that you indicated you enjoy. There are a number of DM-less modules out there, although most of them require you to make moves and attacks for the enemies you fight.
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J. Green
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MageKnight Dungeons works really well without a DM and you can buy a lot of it very cheap on ebay. It has terrain tiles you can mix and match, as well as rules for randomly spawning monsters.

For a specifically designed DM-less experience, I have to recommend the Mythic Roleplaying GM Emulator, found here:

http://www.mythic.wordpr.com/page14/page14.html

I have this and it works surprisingly well. There's also a great new book from AEG although it's expensive, called "Ultimate Toolbox," which is just a huge book full of random table generators.

http://www.alderac.com/ultimatetoolbox/


Finally, AEG also put out a cool dungeon crawl game called TOMB...

http://www.tombthegame.com/


Which has its problems as a game but is a cool implementation of the build-a-party and bust-up-a-dungeon thing. Interestingly, AEG is apparently preparing a sequel expansion that can also be played as a stand-alone game, and has a rulebook that is downloadable here http://www.tombthegame.com/wp-content/uploads/cryptmaster_ru... to replace the origial rulebook and will "fix" the problems with the original game apparently.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29581

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/43320

Hope this was helpful.
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Pete Lane
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Have you tried Descent: Journeys in the Dark or Runebound?
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Brian M
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To the OP: do you want a cooperative experience where all the players are working together? If not, some of the other suggestions may be a lot better. Descent follows the same model as HeroQuest; 1 'monster' player against the hero players. However, it doesn't include a campaign in the basic set, and doesn't really support very custom characters. It might be something to look into though.

Mageknight Dungeons lacks the campaign or character building experience, and is competitive rather than cooperative. It can be very fun though.

The D&D miniatures game is just a skirmish game. A decent one, but its not a 'dungeon crawl'. Pity.

Take my comments about 4e with a grain of salt. A lot of people don't seem to have the same problems I do at all. For example, I find running even one monster by trying to look at its stats directly in the MM completely unwieldy; some people happily flip back and forth between two or three.

Do keep in mind that 4e monsters have a lot of decisions to make in a fight, and if you try to play it with just the PCs controlling the monsters, you'll be having to "play against" yourself.
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Wilhelm Fitzpatrick
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I've had an enjoyable time using D&D4e with no GM. Yes, the players have to run the monsters against yourself, but the MM typically has a "typical tactics" section for each type of monster, so just read that and then apply it a fairly as you can. It's often helpful to have the players take turns making decisions for the monsters.
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Robin DH
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D&D 4e seems best suited - have you seen the rules for random dungeons and encounters in the Dungeon Masters Guide? With a little more fleshing-out I think they'd be very close to what you're looking for.

I've been playing Keep on the Shadowfell solo on my PC with a party of 5 - it's complex, but a lot of fun and you can feed a baby at the same time. I play using MapTool, Character Builder, Dice Tool and some PDF files of Power Cards.
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Robin DH
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Harv wrote:

Party of Five eh?


That's a party of six.

FAKE EDIT: Wait, is one of them the DM? shake
 
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Michael J
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Matt, I think you should go for D&D 4E. I got into the minis last year because I wanted a true RPG experience I could play by myself. For a while I was able to have fun moving the minis and playing as the monsters. There are, in fact, a few solo mini-adventures that you can use complete with treasure and such. But, alas, there is no true leveling-up.

So, I've finally decided to go full D&D 4E, and play through all the free modules solo. I love D&D, and the 4E style of play is EXACTLY how my friends and I loved to play as kids (we took a big piece of wood and drew a grid on it, and made up our own minis rules and had a blast).

I'm still working through the PHB and DMG, and I've downloaded the H1 scenario mentioned above, along with Maptool (a COOL program, BTW). I can't wait to start my first real adventure.

Mike
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Joshua O'Connor
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mjacobsca wrote:
The D&D Minis game is a little simpler than the 4E game from a stats perspective, but retains most of the combat mechanics that you indicated you enjoy. There are a number of DM-less modules out there, although most of them require you to make moves and attacks for the enemies you fight.
THIS.

zombie
 
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Juhan Voolaid
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Rangers of Shadow Deep
 
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Joshua O'Connor
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Just heard about this, I had always asked for coop Frostgrave, so this might be fun. Does anyone have an opinion? The book is black and white and I prefer a nice color book like Frostgrave, but I’ll consider it anyway if it’s good!
 
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