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Subject: God hates the living rss

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Rusty McFisticuffs
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A reaffirmation of my earlier feelings on the topic.

Today my wife was digging stuff out of the compost bin, and was mildly horrified when she came up with a shovelful of something pink. It was a litter of half a dozen baby mammals, two or three inches long, hairless, with eyes which hadn't opened yet, and they were trembling and squeaking. Baby rats? Gophers? No idea. They were cute little guys, with cute little toes and cute little faces. My wife gave them to me to kill.

I fucking hate stuff like that, and when I am choosing the manner of another being's death, I am reminded that people have told me this existence is the creation of a God who is good, which makes me angry. The idea is insane and repellent. If God was good to these little guys, He wouldn't have set them on my path.

And baby vermin getting bashed with a brick, or starving to death in a trash can, crying for a mother who will never come? That's the teeniest, most insignificant speck of the total shittiness inflicted on living things on a good day. To believe that this system is the product of a competent Creator, and then to serve that Creator, that is evil.

That is my claim.

...

A while ago, my local Jehovah's Witnesses gave me a book explaining that Satan is the Lord of the Earth, and citing the Bible passages which support this. That's the least-nonsensical "invisible man in the sky" explanation I've ever heard: you suffer because you are being used to settle an argument between two invisible men in the sky.

How they go from that, to thinking that one of the invisible men actually cares about them, I don't know. "Least-nonsensical" still leaves room for a lot of nonsense.

...

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a hitchhiker for what turned out to be a several-hour ride + drama, and she talked a lot about the people who were going to give her a ride, some weird multi-house Christian compound with occasional child molestation. "We prayed about it," they told her, "and the Lord said we shouldn't leave until 9:35 tonight." "But I told them I would be there this afternoon." "Well, maybe the Lord wants you to get fired." Or, one guy had a car he tried to give to one person, and then to another person; when she asked him for it, he prayed about it, and the Lord gave him "a definite no."

My question to her was why these people thought the answers were coming from God. (I guess this is applicable to anyone who prays.) If you think you're getting answers from a supernatural being, you can't trust any claims it might make about being God, or good, or a moral authority; isn't that all stuff an evil being would say too?
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Don
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kuhrusty wrote:
A reaffirmation of my earlier feelings on the topic.

Today my wife was digging stuff out of the compost bin, and was mildly horrified when she came up with a shovelful of something pink. It was a litter of half a dozen baby mammals, two or three inches long, hairless, with eyes which hadn't opened yet, and they were trembling and squeaking. Baby rats? Gophers? No idea. They were cute little guys, with cute little toes and cute little faces. My wife gave them to me to kill.

I fucking hate stuff like that, and when I am choosing the manner of another being's death, I am reminded that people have told me this existence is the creation of a God who is good, which makes me angry. The idea is insane and repellent. If God was good to these little guys, He wouldn't have set them on my path.

And baby vermin getting bashed with a brick, or starving to death in a trash can, crying for a mother who will never come? That's the teeniest, most insignificant speck of the total shittiness inflicted on living things on a good day. To believe that this system is the product of a competent Creator, and then to serve that Creator, that is evil.

That is my claim.


I know I should just move on but in case you are serious, what the heck:
You and your wife purchased the compost bin. You and your wife decided that these creatures should die. You hate killing? Why didn't you find another solution? Could you have waited before emptying the bin? The mother might have returned. Or just accept that death is part of the recreation of life. You said it yourself: "your path"

Sorry for this but your post sounds like one of those blaming someone else for my choices kind of things. Or "the world is unfair, I'm powerless to do anything about it so I'll just blame God, my parents, my boss, the neigbours, and whoever else I feel like" sort of things. I normally like your non-religious posts but this just seems odd.
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Paul DeStefano
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Maybe God put them there (if one is willing to accept a God and even then one who does such things), but it was your wife who gave the order and you who accepted it.
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Yeah man, instead of killing them your wife could have breast fed them to ensure their survival.
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Welcome Rolling Stones
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Why do wives ask their husbands to kill things? I never liked that either.
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Oh, so you actually think about what you are saying?
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For a pretty good exploration of this topic from a Christian apologist standpoint, check out the Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis.
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49xjohn wrote:

Why do wives ask their husbands to kill things? I never liked that either.


Because men are evil and god hates living things. Especially men.
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Magic Pink
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Geosphere wrote:
Maybe God put them there (if one is willing to accept a God and even then one who does such things), but it was your wife who gave the order and you who accepted it.


Exactly. There's plenty of wildlife centers you could have called to come and take them.
 
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John So-And-So
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Lord_Prussian wrote:
For a pretty good exploration of this topic from a Christian apologist standpoint, check out the Problem of Pain by C.S. Lewis.


No wait, the other one. A really lame exploration of this topic.
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True Blue Jon
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I used to shoot sage rats with a .22

I guess I'm Satan.
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Dane Peacock
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kuhrusty wrote:

A couple of weeks ago I picked up a hitchhiker for what turned out to be a several-hour ride


Hitchhikers... so that's what they're calling them now.
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Paul DeStefano
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kuhrusty wrote:
My wife gave them to me to kill.


I really have been dwelling on that this whole time in my office.

Your wife made a decision to kill something and somehow you use this as a proof against God.

Let me preface with I don't believe in that God either, so that's not what struck me.

What struck me is the human condition that lead both you and your wife to put your momentary needs above another, albeit absolutely minor, harmless life form.

I'm sure a fundamentalist would come up with if there were a God - this was a test. To see what humanity would do. To see if you would inconvenience yourself out of respect for life.

Yet here were creatures doing you no harm. Nesting unknowingly in your territory. They will probably be taken by the wild anyway. Some stray dog's snack. Yet a conscious decision was made to destroy them rather than relocate them or inconvenience yourself.

Its the choice that was made that has the dark weight to it. Not the world around it.

They could have been viewed as a wonderful gift.
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John So-And-So
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Geosphere wrote:
Its the choice that was made that has the dark weight to it. Not the world around it.

They could have been viewed as a wonderful gift.


That's bullshit.

This is the mentality that forces old people to die attached to respirators because pulling the plug is "adding a dark weight" to the "wonderful gift" of waiting to die in pain.

Alleviating suffering is an act of good.
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Paul DeStefano
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CapAp wrote:

Alleviating suffering is an act of good.


What in the world are you talking about?

At no point is any suffereng mentioned?

This mentality? Not killing newborn animals in their nest?

Where are you getting this from?
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John So-And-So
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Geosphere wrote:
What in the world are you talking about?

Your postulation that Rusty was "putting his needs" above "a harmless life form".

Quote:
At no point is any suffereng mentioned?

Why do you think Rusty killed them? Because his wife kills anything alive they find in their trash cans? He killed them so they wouldn't starve to death or be eaten alive.

Quote:
This mentality? Not killing newborn animals in their nest?
Where are you getting this from?

Either you or I have completly misread the OP. I'll leave it up to Rusty to set it straight.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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CapAp wrote:

Either you or I have completly misread the OP. I'll leave it up to Rusty to set it straight.


I have to agree. We both got totally different scenarios out of the original post and continuing is futile.

I read it as she was going through compost - which where I come from is decidedly NOT trash cans, but that might be a geographic thing - and came up with these little things and wanted them disposed of because they didn't belong.
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Don
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I'm actually quite surprised at the number of athiests who have thumbed a "I hate God" post. If you hate something, doesn't that mean that you acknowledge its existence?

Hate in any form is unhealthy. Better to simply hope that God doesn't exist than to hate Him.

Edit: What ever happened to taking responsibility for one's own actions? My current favourites are people who blame their parents and those who blame their boss/employer. Blaming God is right up there too. There are lots of choices out there - we tend to build our own walls.
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Lockridge wrote:
I'm actually quite surprised at the number of athiests who have thumbed a "I hate God" post. If you hate something, doesn't that mean that you acknowledge its existence?


Re-read the original post. He doesn't hate God, he finds the idea of God (as typically expressed by religious people) offensive in its claims and implications.
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True Blue Jon
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Lockridge wrote:
Hate in any form is unhealthy.


I hate flying insects.
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dysjunct wrote:
Lockridge wrote:
I'm actually quite surprised at the number of athiests who have thumbed a "I hate God" post. If you hate something, doesn't that mean that you acknowledge its existence?


Re-read the original post. He doesn't hate God, he finds the idea of God (as typically expressed by religious people) offensive in its claims and implications.


I see what you mean. I read it from the point of view of his satanic microbadge and previous posts implying a hatred of God. As far as I know Satanists believe God exists, they just think that he's evil, dead or whatever.

Of course he might not be serious. I'm actually expecting him to pop up any moment and say "I can't believe you guys took me seriously!"

But I'm not too busy today so I'm making trouble.
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quozl wrote:
Lockridge wrote:
Hate in any form is unhealthy.


I hate flying insects.


I never said we couldn't be unhealthy! You should see my diet.

PS. I'm practicing my use of smilies. If you liked it please thumb a random post in Chit Chat. If you didn't then please tip 1 GG to the person above you and critique my smilie.
 
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DarthXaos wrote:
Lockridge wrote:

I see what you mean. I read it from the point of view of his satanic microbadge and previous posts implying a hatred of God. As far as I know Satanists believe God exists, they just think that he's evil, dead or whatever.


That's not actually what Satanism teaches. Satanism isn't the worship of the literal biblical Satan, it uses the character of Satan as a metaphor for the self, since Satan rebelled against God to worship the self in the legends.

At least, as I understand it. It's kind of like Objectivism but with more mysticism.


Darth, your statement was level, calm, without malice, negativity or demeaning critizism. You get a thumb. (of course maybe you are quozl's sock puppet so I'll thumb him too).
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Scott Russell
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Last spring, I turned on my grill and a mouse ran out from under and across the grate.

I turned it off and investigated. Sure enough a mouse nest. I relocated it to under the deck. The poor little suckers probably got eaten, but I figured I gave them a chance.

I used to stomp mice/rats when working on the farm, but the kids have some as pets, so offing them seemed wrong, somehow.

I suspect kuhrusty's solution was more humane than mine.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Lockridge wrote:
You and your wife decided that these creatures should die.

I don't think that's correct; I think they were doomed the moment my wife found them, and all we got to decide was how they would die.

These were helpless baby mammals: they would not have survived on their own. After digging up their nest, I believe "putting them back" would have meant starvation or extremely unpleasant death by our cats. (And even if I were wrong about that--if we moved them out of the compost bin to someplace safe, and their mother found them, and didn't abandon them because they now smelled different or whatever--then what? We have a bunch of wild rats, whose goals regarding my home & my family are not compatible with my own. I don't want rats getting into my house!)

I may be wrong about this--I don't actually know, and I don't mean to sound disrespectful--but Magic Pink's idea of calling a wildlife center strikes me as ridiculous. For rats, I think they would have told me to call an exterminator.

That leaves "heroic measures to save & raise them myself" and "killing them" as the only two other options, and I do not believe I would have been successful at the first.

Geosphere wrote:
I read it as she was going through compost - which where I come from is decidedly NOT trash cans, but that might be a geographic thing - and came up with these little things and wanted them disposed of because they didn't belong.

While it is true that we didn't want them there, I would have taken them to the marsh a few miles away if I had thought they wouldn't just die where I left 'em. (My wife suggested that, but... heck, they can starve here for free.)
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Lockridge wrote:
Sorry for this but your post sounds like one of those blaming someone else for my choices kind of things. Or "the world is unfair, I'm powerless to do anything about it so I'll just blame God, my parents, my boss, the neigbours, and whoever else I feel like" sort of things.
Drew1365 wrote:
Yeah, I don't get it. One of Mother's Creatures decides to have her babies in a pile of warm, cozy grass clipping and other vegetable matter (because compost bins can put out a lot of heat), and you . . . you blame God for this?

Well, sure! I think there are two main ways to consider a shovelful of little guys who haven't done anything to anyone, and who now, through no fault of their own, will suffer.

1. Shit happens. It's too bad for these guys that they're in a world where no one cares about them, but no one's to blame.

2. Shit happens for a reason, a purpose. There is a plan which is larger and more complex than I am capable of understanding, and the suffering of these little guys is part of that plan--not some senseless random collateral damage indicative of a really shitty, stupid plan.

I believe the first, but when I consider the second, I get angry that people would willingly support that plan, or believe that the creator of such a plan is good.

Lockridge wrote:
I read it from the point of view of his satanic microbadge and previous posts implying a hatred of God. As far as I know Satanists believe God exists, they just think that he's evil, dead or whatever.

Of course he might not be serious. I'm actually expecting him to pop up any moment and say "I can't believe you guys took me seriously!"

Well, by itself, "God hates the living" is an overstatement; I should have prefaced it with, "to the extent that God exists..."
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