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Subject: Will Obama's "health care" plan essentially outlaw private insurance? rss

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John So-And-So
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God, I hope it doesn't cost us like 80 billion dollars. We could run a war with that much money.
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CHAPEL
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FlyingArrow wrote:
I don't think it matters. If this passes, within 5-10 years (maybe less), as a cost-cutting measure virtually all companies will drop insurance plans and let the "public option" cover employees. Private insurance - assuming it's still around - will become so expensive that only the ultra-rich, Congress, and the President will have it.


Congress and the president already have public health care(FEHBP). And from what I hear it's a awesome plan, and one I can only wish I was on.
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Marc P
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I'm already on record here as being fine with this concept. If they're going to spend the money to instill a national health coverage plan, it cannot be just another insurance company. If that were the case, you'd be covering mostly people who can't afford other coverage, and it couldn't then pay for itself--hence the ridiculous Millionaire Tax. Only by essentially wresting basic insurance from for-profit insurers can such a plan be long-term viable. I wish they would just freaking SAY IT instead of this silly shell game that kills their credibility when it is "exposed" like this.

Oh, and did anyone hear how the document to completely overhaul insurance coverage in one of the largest, most diverse countries in the world is OVER 1,000 pages??? What a shocker.
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David desJardins
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Drew1365 wrote:
I'm sure there are several people here in RSP willing to step up to the plate and explain how IBD is wrong.


Not any more. Lies are lies, I've done enough debunking for a while. Someone else will have to refute the transparent lies this time.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
I'm sure there are several people here in RSP willing to step up to the plate and explain how IBD is wrong.


Not any more. Lies are lies, I've done enough debunking for a while. Someone else will have to refute the transparent lies this time.


Translation = He doesn't have a clue how to counter this, therefore he resorts to the usual "it's a lie told by lying liars" retort.
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David desJardins
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DWTripp wrote:
Translation = He doesn't have a clue how to counter this, therefore he resorts to the usual "it's a lie told by lying liars" retort.


No, I refuted the last 50 of Drew's claims, all of which were lies. I'm taking a break.

Pay me a hundred dollars and I'll post what I already wrote about this when some other liar posted it somewhere else.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Translation = He doesn't have a clue how to counter this, therefore he resorts to the usual "it's a lie told by lying liars" retort.


No, I refuted the last 50 of Drew's claims, all of which were lies. I'm taking a break.

Pay me a hundred dollars and I'll post what I already wrote about this when some other liar posted it somewhere else.


What a load. That's not Drew's claim... it's him quoting from IBD which quoted from one of the guys in charge of this clusterfuck.

Like I said... you either want this socialized program or you don't. But apparently the current administration feels the need to hide the socialized nature of it in order to try and get it passed into law.

C'mon... if you like this shit then stand up and say it like a man! Admit it's right there in the bill and that you like it.
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Marc P
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OK, Drew, that's two "bloviation"s this week. You're cut off from cable news for a week. Yes, even Anderson Cooper 360.
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Isn't the idea to make a plan for a system that replaces the current system? Replace usually means put a new one in and get rid of the old one.

I'm with Marc P--if they make a national health care plan, it should be a plan that most of the nation uses.

Also, this:
Quote:
But the exchange will not be a private market. It will be a program in which Americans can buy individual plans from private companies in competition with the "public option" provision of the bill that will provide taxpayer-subsidized coverage.

doesn't sound like an outlawing. It sounds like new rules that private companies must follow to stay in the new game.
 
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John So-And-So
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DWTripp wrote:
C'mon... if you like this shit then stand up and say it like a man! Admit it's right there in the bill and that you like it.


Oh shit! You may have money, David, BUT YOU GOT A SMALL DICK, YO!
 
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CHAPEL
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DWTripp wrote:


C'mon... if you like this shit then stand up and say it like a man! Admit it's right there in the bill and that you like it.


I WANT SOCIALIZED MEDICINE!

But then again, I'm a veteran so I already kind of have socialized medicine if I need it.
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CapAp wrote:
God, I hope it doesn't cost us like 80 billion dollars. We could run a war with that much money.


You do realize that the current estimate is around 1.5 TRILLION, right? But you're right; we could run one hell of a war with that amount.
 
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John So-And-So
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Since David needs to hit the bench, looks like I'm pinching. This t took all of two minutes of research, so I can understand why Drew and DW didn't have time to check the facts out for themselves!

Just wondering, did you guys hear this on the same Limbaugh show that you picked up the bullshit line about the President not reading the bill? Because that's also a complete fucking lie.

Any other liberals around here feel like the conservative crazies are a mere shadow of what they used to be? This is like shooting fish in a barrel.
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Tim McCormley
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
I'm sure there are several people here in RSP willing to step up to the plate and explain how IBD is wrong.


Not any more. Lies are lies, I've done enough debunking for a while. Someone else will have to refute the transparent lies this time.

Here's one reference that clarifies the issue

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/07/16/does-the-house-plan-outl...

(A public response to the IBD story)

Quote:
Investor’s Business Daily did not continue to read the bill to page 19. “Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan. ” It does not outlaw individual private coverage – you can still buy the plan on the Exchange where they will compete with the public option, not be replaced by it. The advantage of the Exchange, is that the coverage no longer has one of the problems of individual coverage – skyrocketing premiums should you become ill.


Conn Carrol goes on to make the point that the regulations surrounding the Health Care Exchange will effectively kill private insurance. This is clearly a matter of opinion.

And here's a little wiki on Health Insurance Exchanges for those interested parties: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_exchange

Tim

Edit: Add the wiki link for Health Insurance Exchanges
 
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John So-And-So
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TheOriginalGameBoy wrote:
You do realize that the current estimate is around 1.5 TRILLION, right? But you're right; we could run one hell of a war with that amount.


And to think, we'll be using that money to make people live LONGER rather than blowing them up? I mean really, would you rather cure a guy's cancer for $2, or shoot him in the face for $1? Think hard before you answer, comrade.
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John So-And-So
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armor_11 wrote:


Are you fucking kidding? Heritage Foundation link?

I think there's an evolution thread that could use a Discovery Institute URL right over there, while you're at it.
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CHAPEL
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CapAp wrote:
TheOriginalGameBoy wrote:
You do realize that the current estimate is around 1.5 TRILLION, right? But you're right; we could run one hell of a war with that amount.


And to think, we'll be using that money to make people live LONGER rather than blowing them up? I mean really, would you rather cure a guy's cancer for $2, or shoot him in the face for $1? Think hard before you answer, comrade.


I think they would rather keep Americans "safe" from the evil terrorists killing them so that they can die of the common cold instead(Which is more likely).
 
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David desJardins
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Fine. Here's how IBD is wrong. We'll see if one person actually thumbs my post or cares that I took the time to respond, that will be a fair measure of whether rebutting this stuff is worth it.

The IBD story says that the bill will bar companies from selling private insurance. That is not true. The provision that they quote sets a time after which individual insurance must be sold through exchanges that ensure equal access for everyone. Anyone can sell exactly the same policies they do now, as long as those policies meet minimum coverage criteria; they just have to sell them on a nondiscriminatory basis to everyone.
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CapAp wrote:
...looks like I'm pinching.

Kinky.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
I think they would rather keep Americans "safe" from the evil terrorists killing them so that they can die of the common cold instead(Which is more likely).



common cold?

commounist cold?

You've been duped. Terrorism is a Red Herring. The Commies will get us all.
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BoB3K wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
I think they would rather keep Americans "safe" from the evil terrorists killing them so that they can die of the common cold instead(Which is more likely).



common cold?

commounist cold?

You've been duped. Terrorism is a Red Herring. The Commies will get us all.


Sorry, was that too 2006? It's hard to keep up with all the red herrings, I've been pretty busy at work.

modest
 
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Tim McCormley
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CapAp wrote:
armor_11 wrote:


Are you fucking kidding? Heritage Foundation link?

Sheesh, and to think I actually thumbed your post.

Who gives a rats arse where the information comes from as long as it's accurate?

Quote:
I think there's an evolution thread that could use a Discovery Institute URL right over there, while you're at it.

Hey, if the Discovery Institute published an article that said Creationism was a flawed argument, I'd post it in a second. Wouldn't you?

Tim
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John So-And-So
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armor_11 wrote:
Who gives a rats arse where the information comes from as long as it's accurate?

You've really got to consider where the information is coming from to judge the liklihood of said information BEING accurate.

Quote:
Hey, if the Discovery Institute published an article that said Creationism was a flawed argument, I'd post it in a second. Wouldn't you?

Wow, absolutely not.
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John So-And-So
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Drew1365 wrote:
People who are more concerned with ideological purity than with truth?


Fucking hell. Your hypocrisy is literally making me shake in anger. Care to reply to my last point while I go pace to avoid taking up smoking again?
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Fine. Here's how IBD is wrong. We'll see if one person actually thumbs my post or cares that I took the time to respond, that will be a fair measure of whether rebutting this stuff is worth it.

The IBD story says that the bill will bar companies from selling private insurance. That is not true. The provision that they quote sets a time after which individual insurance must be sold through exchanges that ensure equal access for everyone. Anyone can sell exactly the same policies they do now, as long as those policies meet minimum coverage criteria; they just have to sell them on a nondiscriminatory basis to everyone.


Well, I certainly won't thumb your post. That's what threads in Chit Chat are for.

What you wrote here is correct. It's also exactly why much of the opposition to the bill is so strong. And not just insurance lobbyists either.

The net result of the specific "rule" would be to make conditions so untenable that private insurance, as a profitable enterprise, would cease to exist. Leaving only the government to provide. Which boils down to a single-payer system.

This is a case of a "rose by any other name" writing. It's drafted to give the appearance of being something other than what it is. Thankfully there are still plenty of people capable of reading and thankfully, Obama failed to get this one through before some folks had a chance to read it.
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