Benjamin Parker
United States
Manchester
Connecticut
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So I've been thinking about this since the first expansion; there are a LOT of cards. Now that's not a bad thing, but it does kind of make it difficult to get the specific cards that you need (such as specific 6-dev's which can give you the game). Now it's nice that in the recent expansion they added some more color-specific 6-dev's, but still... there are 180 cards!

So I've come up with/read around on the forums to try to find different set-up ways and I've come up with quite a few to give the players more options at setup. As such, I've also set up a poll so you guys can vote on which ones you think are the best.

Option 1
After choosing start worlds, separate the dev's and worlds into 2 separate decks. When you gain a card for whatever reason, you may draw from either stack. This will basically allow the player to lean more toward technologies or settling.

Option 2
After choosing start worlds, shuffle and set aside 58 cards to start the deck. Deal the rest of the cards to each player. Each player looks at the part handed to them and adds a number of cards to the deck such that when all cards are added, there will be 100 cards total 48 cards remaining

2p: 24 cards each
3p: 16 cards each
4p: 12 cards each
5p: 9 cards each (there will only be 97 cards in the deck)
6p: 8 cards each

Add rejected cards to the discard pile. They will be shuffled into the deck if/when it runs out.

Option 3
Same as Option 2 but the rejected cards are removed from the game utterly.

Option 4
The game is fine as-is... there's no need for the above options

Poll
Which variant do you like the best?
Option 1 (different dev and world decks)
Option 2 (Start with a random base of a deck and have players add to it. Place the rejected cards in the discard pile)
Option 3 (Start with a random base of a deck and have players add to it. Remove rejected cards from the game)
Option 4 (The game is fine as-is)
      128 answers
Poll created by brdparker


Also, if you have any other methods, feel free to post them here. I'd be interested to see what you guys think.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Bart
United States
Winnetka
California
flag msg tools
designer
Baseball been bery bery good to me
badge
This is a picture of a published game designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
brdparker wrote:
Also, if you have any other methods, feel free to post them here.

Play Witch's Brew.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jimmer Sivertsen
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The split is interesting, but broken when you're running a develop-strategy. (Or a crazy windfall, extra cards on a settle strategy.)

I've played some games where we draft the starting hand - basically everyone is dealt their two starting planet options, 6 cards, and we reveal the goals. Everyone then chooses one card from their hand, passes the rest of them to the left (repeat). It gives everyone a stronger start, a little to the detriment of Ancient Race, who only keeps 3. (The players each only know their own starting planet options during the draft.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R A
United Kingdom
Norwich
Norfolk
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
I haven't tried the splitting Developments and Worlds. Sounds interesting though! But, as Jimmer says, it wouldn't take much for it to be totally degenrate...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Parker
United States
Manchester
Connecticut
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Of course, yeah these would make certain cards more valuable than others... Broken though? I think I'd have to playtest it...

My personal favorite is the second variant (I like perfect info games, and this makes race slightly more PI)

I'm trying to remember Witch's Brew's drafting... It's been a while since I played.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ErikPeter Walker
United States
Rochester
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/145148/
badge
Expand
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Have you tried using the official variant drafting rules?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Parker
United States
Manchester
Connecticut
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Voxen wrote:
Have you tried using the official variant drafting rules?


Huh... I don't know how I missed that in TGS. No, I haven't tried that out; I'll have to do that.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hannu Pajula
Finland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Anything that slows down game setup gets a no-no from me. The only change we have made into game setup is to remove unused start worlds from the game altogether, so they can be found easily for the next game. There is always the next game.

I don't see the size of the deck as a problem for other than shuffling. It teaches you to play safe or balanced strategies instead of hit-or-miss strategies that depend on finding the right 6-dev.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Parker
United States
Manchester
Connecticut
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
jullevi wrote:
Anything that slows down game setup gets a no-no from me. The only change we have made into game setup is to remove unused start worlds from the game altogether, so they can be found easily for the next game. There is always the next game.

I don't see the size of the deck as a problem for other than shuffling. It teaches you to play safe or balanced strategies instead of hit-or-miss strategies that depend on finding the right 6-dev.


For the start worlds, what we've done is printed up copies from the geek to use as tokens, shuffle them up and deal the start worlds out. If you draw a start world someone has, place it on top of the SW and draw a new card. This obviously doesn't help if an SW comes out as a resource, but it keeps the flow of setup going.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Krzysiek
Poland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
The game is fine as it is. If you build your tableau waiting for a certain card to appear in your hand at some point, then it's a gamble - it will either pay of or not. Evaluating risks and rewards of such gambles makes a huge part of games like RftG (and while I like it, some people hate that aspect of gaming, calling it "luck").

The draft variant is great - it does not guarantee that you will get the cards you choose (or that you will be able to choose the cards you want at all), but it gives you a better idea of how likely you are to get certain cards. My group plays the drafting variant a lot - it makes for some quick, mean and high-scoring games. Everyone who finds the game too luck dependant should try it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Parker
United States
Manchester
Connecticut
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
czwarty wrote:
The game is fine as it is. If you build your tableau waiting for a certain card to appear in your hand at some point, then it's a gamble - it will either pay of or not. Evaluating risks and rewards of such gambles makes a huge part of games like RftG (and while I like it, some people hate that aspect of gaming, calling it "luck").

The draft variant is great - it does not guarantee that you will get the cards you choose (or that you will be able to choose the cards you want at all), but it gives you a better idea of how likely you are to get certain cards. My group plays the drafting variant a lot - it makes for some quick, mean and high-scoring games. Everyone who finds the game too luck dependant should try it.


Thanks for the advice; I'll try that.

I don't find the game too luck-dependent. I just thought that as the expansions start to come out more there will be more and more cards piling up (and apart from that, the deck will be more difficult to shuffle).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Smith
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jullevi wrote:
Anything that slows down game setup gets a no-no from me. ... I don't see the size of the deck as a problem for other than shuffling. It teaches you to play safe or balanced strategies instead of hit-or-miss strategies that depend on finding the right 6-dev


I agree with this sentiment!
I have, however, been splitting the deck into 2 draw piles at least since the first expansion, simply for the sake of speeding up card-drawing. My split is completely random, though, so it does not slow things down. I simply shuffle at the beginning, after start worlds and hands are dealt, and make 2 more or less equal and random draw piles with the discard pile (messy) in between. This particularly speeds up the Explore phase when everyone is reaching for the draw pile at once.

Your idea to split worlds and developments is quite interesting, though, and I'll have to try that out sometime (even though it would slow down setup considerably... oh well!).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Serge Levert
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bugeeker wrote:
I have, however, been splitting the deck into 2 draw piles at least since the first expansion, simply for the sake of speeding up card-drawing. My split is completely random, though, so it does not slow things down. I simply shuffle at the beginning, after start worlds and hands are dealt, and make 2 more or less equal and random draw piles with the discard pile (messy) in between. This particularly speeds up the Explore phase when everyone is reaching for the draw pile at once.


That's an excellent way to speed things up! Bonus - it has no effect on the rules/strategy.

The only downside i can see is with people that don't have a good understanding of randomness. For example, players that get uppity about who draws first from a random deck.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Guy Srinivasan
United States
Kirkland
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
entranced wrote:
The only downside i can see is with people that don't have a good understanding of randomness. For example, players that get uppity about who draws first from a random deck.

These players should be taught the truth, overridden for the sake of the rest of the group, or roped into playing poker.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Smith
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
entranced wrote:
bugeeker wrote:
I have, however, been splitting the deck into 2 draw piles at least since the first expansion, simply for the sake of speeding up card-drawing.


That's an excellent way to speed things up! Bonus - it has no effect on the rules/strategy.

The only downside i can see is with people that don't have a good understanding of randomness. For example, players that get uppity about who draws first from a random deck.


I know what you mean, and anyone who makes a fuss about such things is a bit silly. That said, and even though I understand randomness just fine, I always prefer to draw half of my total draw from each deck (e.g., if I draw 4, I take 2 from each deck). Why? Perhaps it's for symmetry? Perhaps I feel cool drawing from two piles simultaneously, one hand on each? Or perhaps there's still that irrational part of my pysche that just knows I'll miss out on the card I need if I don't explore both decks equally!
It's funny the tricks your mind can play on you.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Serge Levert
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bugeeker wrote:
I always prefer to draw half of my total draw from each deck (e.g., if I draw 4, I take 2 from each deck). Why? Perhaps it's for symmetry? Perhaps I feel cool drawing from two piles simultaneously, one hand on each? Or perhaps there's still that irrational part of my pysche that just knows I'll miss out on the card I need if I don't explore both decks equally!


Another possibility is your playgroup doesn't shuffle enough to reach randomness, so you subconsciously draw from both as a further level of randomization. :)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wei-Hwa Huang
United States
San Jose
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
brdparker wrote:
Also, if you have any other methods, feel free to post them here.


When the discard pile has as many cards as the draw pile, shuffle it and set it up as the "reject" draw pile. When drawing, players can choose which draw pile (the "fresh" or the "reject") to draw from.

I have no idea how well this idea will work. I personally would always draw from the "fresh" pile unless I'm looking for a specific card, and with the expansions I've learned to never look for a specific card.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.