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Subject: This is NOT the edition you want...Am I over reacting? rss

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Sean Shaw
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Okay, before going on and writing a review of this I have to cool down. This game is SCREWED for the general populace in my opinion. In fact, I think they made a bad mistake. I generally write a review about a game based on components, rules presentation, gameplay, personal tilt, replayability, and useability.

This main problem I've come upon is components. I'm total AT, and normally games like this will at least score an average. In order for a game to score a 1 it has to be basically made of paper or cardstock...OR have components that are terribly integrated into the game...OR simply ship without having the right components. Except for your standard wargames (which I shy away from reviewing unless I think they can at least score decently on their other merits) which have a LOT of paper typically, and no plastic or wood, it's pretty easy for a game to score above a 1 or 2 on their component list.

So what's my main complaint? We knew (or at least some of us knew) that this game was going to be shipping without money. That's cool, I figured they must have some other way to keep track or spend it.

NOT SO. They simply ship it without the IPC's...period. In the first portion of the rule book it mentions on page 10, on phase 1 that you must pay for your IPC's. There are no IPC's included. I had a double take...how in the world was I supposed to pay. It says the banker adjust the totals...with WHAT!? I wondered.

Do we use the National Production and Mobilization Zone Charts located at the bottom of the board (and on the board itself, which go up to 75) to keep track.

NO. It's answered in a brief sentence before that on page 7...and I quote...

"Have on palyer act as a banker and track each power's IPC total on a piece of paper, or use another means agreed upon by your group."

Do they realize how argumentative groups who aren't hardcore boardgamers can get? They don't include paper or pencils, or anything to actually record this stuff on...aka...out of the box, with the materials included in the box...the game is UNPLAYABLE!

Period.

Furthermore, it suggests a way to do the tracking...but no specifics on how exactly that's to be accomplished. We're simply to let one player do all the math? We trust him completely...why not simply just have a gamemaster then who doesn't play and his only job is to regulate rules, keep track of money, and oversee the game?

Is he supposed to have it in columns, open for all to see?

No explanation, and even worse, it opens an even greater can of worms by saying..."or use another means agreed upon by your group." what happens if the group can't agree because the rules are so vague and the game literally provides NO MEANS to do so in and of itself.

I have NO problems embellishing a game with new components. Replace the money with Poker chips...fine...but expect it from me so I can play a game? That spells B.R.O.K.E.N. out of the box to me.

YOU HAVE to get more materials to play this game.

Personal preference, I think paper is even better, since at least it allows players and banker to keep track, and once that money is gone...we know they've spent their IPC's...instead of a banker math mistake that only the banker can check...instead of a simple sum all can see occurring.

So that means, in my current mood I would rank this component wise...a 1 out of 10. Why...it's broken out of the box as no components to keep track of IPC's are included, and it's left to the player to figure out how to keep track and supply the necessary materials.

For those interested in other aspects of the game...if it WEREN'T for that, the components are actually quite good. You have the the P38's for the American planes, The German cruisers do NOT look like the ones from the Anniversary Edition (from what I can tell if memory serves right, I'll have to break out the Anniversary edition to be able to tell on that note), and overall, the components are not the same for the units from what I can see, though just like revised you could use and swap out the different units I suppose.

The chits are thicker then the Revised, but thinner than the Annivesary edition. The board is actually quite pretty looking a LOT like the Anniversary edition, but only 5 factions, (the originals) US, Japan, Germany, Britain and Russia.

They have the National Production chart on the board, and they have the Mobilization Zone with the cost, move, attack and defense of each unit in that area. The battleboard is now a battle strip, and is NOT as nice overall, very thin. Basically you put your units NEXT to it, and then you have another strip to divide it from the casualty zone.

You need to win 9 Victory cities to win the standard game, 12 for total Victory which you need to say you are playing (to the 12) prior to the game starting.

Rules are somewhat simplified. There is NO research in this game. It does NOT exist.

Transports have NO combat values. They can load as often as they want, move ends on unloading. Warships can move through zones with submerged enemy subs or enemy transports...however if they end their turn on zones with transports the transports are destroyed (enemy transports obviously are destroyed, friendlies stay alive).

anyways, any comments, am I over reacting on the components here? It does sort of peeve me off. For those causal gamers picking it up in the store (not your typically BGG'er) I can see this as a major stumbling block at first...and a WTF moment going on. I normally don't have those...but I'm am seriously offput by this finding. This IS my initial reaction though...but I need to take a step back and see if it's the right one, or over reacting before even attempting to start in on playing it over and writing a initial review on what I think.
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Stephen Meyers
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Oh my, the IPC bills are not included!!?? cry

The game is now broken!!! cry

You have got to be kidding me!!! Is this guy serious ??

Hey guess what, it does not include a table or chairs either!!!!

You need them to play too, is the game broken becz of that?

I don't think so!

Yes, you are overreacting!

If you even have to ask that question, you already know the answer!



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Bill Norton
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My group always uses poker chips for money when playing. Much nicer.

I always thought it was a shame to waste money on fake money.

I guess they agree with me! shake

Bill
 
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Sean Shaw
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Constantinople wrote:

Oh my, the IPC bills are not included!!?? cry

The game is now broken!!! cry

You have got to be kidding me!!! Is this guy serious ??

Hey guess what, it does not include a table or chairs either!!!!

You need them to play too, is the game broken becz of that?

I don't think so!

Yes, you are overreacting!

If you even have to ask that question, you already know the answer!





Yes, I'm actually serious. This ISN'T the anniversary edition, from what I understand this is a mass market edition. Despite how much people revile monopoly here, imagine if monopoly shipped with NO money...what do you think the general populace's response is going to be. Most don't swap out with poker chips, and a majority use the money included. It's not made for BGG'ers, it's made for non-geeks.
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Sean Shaw
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bnorton916 wrote:
My group always uses poker chips for money when playing. Much nicer.

I always thought it was a shame to waste money on fake money.

I guess they agree with me! shake

Bill


I'd imagine they don't or they'd have included poker chips to be used instead of money. I don't care WHAT they provided...as long as they provided SOMETHING other than NOTHING. AKA...they didn't really provide what I consider a solid method or materials for this. They STILL instruct you to pay OUT the IPC's at points...which leaves you wondering...where the heck are these things? Oh, that's right, the clarification on page 7 should help you know that now...that you have to write it on the top of the board with a pen or something to keep track...maybe write it on the table top?

I'm already thinking of a variation...perhaps each player uses a different coin on the IPC track to keep track of their IPC's (hey, even this is better than what's provided in the game), so maybe a penny, a nickle, a dime, a quarter...and a...hmmm button? That represents how many IPC's you have...whilst your counter represents your IPC income level.
 
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Leo Zappa
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It does sound like they cheaped out here. One thing Hasbro/WOTC/AH games usually excel at is the physical aspect, including components and player aids (aside from the occasionally too-thin chit or card!). I'm a big fan of the A&A family (I basically own them all, up to and including AA50). This is quite unlike these guys to require the players to use scrap paper or other non-provided materials to play the game. Must have been a compromise to keep the price and profitability at their target point. Doesn't mean much to me, since I wasn't planning on buying this one (since I have AA50), but it is slightly disconcerting.

The lack of research is another interesting decision, though up until AA50, I always thought the research in the A&A series was kind of broken. OTOH, new German cruisers are interesting, as the ones in AA50 are rather too broad-beamed for my taste. However, it's not enough to entice me to buy this iteration.

Sounds like they ported over the transport rules from AA50, which is good.

All in all, I do think the OP is over-reacting somewhat, but then I threw a fit when they shipped A&A Guadalcanal with the US and Japanese cruiser colors reversed, so who am I to judge!
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Todd Pytel
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Dude, you seriously need to take a vacation or something. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so completely wig out in a review over something so minor. Relax. It's OK. People will use poker chips, monopoly money, or just keep tally on paper. Life goes on.
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Sean Shaw
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tppytel wrote:
Dude, you seriously need to take a vacation or something. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so completely wig out in a review over something so minor. Relax. It's OK. People will use poker chips, monopoly money, or just keep tally on paper. Life goes on.


Yeah, I suppose so. I'll try it out tonight with some of the guys...though I think they'd rather play AA50, surely they will relent to try this. My wife has even agreed to play, so that should give me a few players tonight for a little while at least. Either that or they'll give a few rounds a shot and then go drinking, but at least I'll see how it works.

This isn't the review actually, This was me looking at my initial reaction and going into shock...then filling you in slightly on what else is in the box. I at least need to give the game at least a little playtime before writing any reviews.
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Charles Giddings
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I pre-ordered this game just to get the extra pcs. because the price was low enough that I figured it was cheaper than shopping around for extra plastic. I have an extra large AA50 map that I printed that makes it a lot easier to move pcs. around and not use so many mini poker chips. The lack of money is not an issue with me BUT it might be a turn off with a new gamer that has never seen AA before. I will wait to get mine before I comment further.
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Tim Earl
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Sure, the OP went a little overboard with his rant, but he does have a point.

This is meant to be the mass market edition of A&A, to be sold at TRU, Wal-Mart, etc. So, this is the edition for new players trying A&A for the first time. Those people are more likely to be turned off or confused by the lack of IPC's.

Clearly, any veteran gamer will use his own preferred method to track IPC's, but the veteran gamer is probably playing the anniversary edition anyway.
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Lupi
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cheng wrote:
Sure, the OP went a little overboard with his rant, but he does have a point.

This is meant to be the mass market edition of A&A, to be sold at TRU, Wal-Mart, etc. So, this is the edition for new players trying A&A for the first time. Those people are more likely to be turned off or confused by the lack of IPC's.

Clearly, any veteran gamer will use his own preferred method to track IPC's, but the veteran gamer is probably playing the anniversary edition anyway.


this
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Blair Riding
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I think its valid to point out it was a bad call on the publisher's part to leave out the IPCs--two extra dollars per copy for monopoly style money wouldn't have destroyed their price point. Then again, if you truly don't have any other alternatives, having to pay 50 cents for a broken down old copy of monopoly at a thrift store or yard sale isn't something worth getting upset about. Unless you really don't like the idea of paying for your battleship with a pink fifty.
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Robert Wesley
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I'm hoping to obtain copious copies of these in "Thrift Stores" ONLY for their "minis", a little while later after their release. Anybody care to hazard a GUESS as to just where the hell "Moscow" is NOW relocated "to" on there? It certainly ain'ts where it ought to 'be'! oh well, "stupid in = stupid out" since they certainly don't PORTRAY or even feign on being 'historically accurate' with even "absolute ZERO" degree on these eh?
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Robert Wesley
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tppytel wrote:
Dude, you seriously need to take a vacation or something. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so completely wig out in a review over something so minor. Relax. It's OK. People will use poker chips, monopoly money, or just keep tally on paper. Life goes on.
I'd like to point out that if they had omitted 12345 within copies of "YAHTZEE!" or even for THIS, you know, JUST because everybody ought to HAVE some and to SAVE $$$ on that aspect, then how were this any different? Breakout the following?
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patrick stanfield
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this cant be the anniversery edition because, judging by the images, there should be more territories in eastern europe, and both italy and china as playabe countries with their own territories, pieces and special rules
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Fox Mulder
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This is really not a big deal. Annoying pain in the butt? Yes. Broken game? No.
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David Jensen
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Yes, you are overreacting. After playing numerous games myself, I sometimes find that the paper money can be nuisance. It gets mixed in with other money, a fan blows all the paper away, many people very frequently forges to pay at the beginning of the turn and ends up paying at the end before they collect their money, etc.

With my group, this has led to some level of mental record keeping and shortcuts. We also never use the IPC track, we just count it up at the end of each turn: "all of Germany, plus this, minus that." Personally, I think being forced to use paper to track IPCs might speed up game play and avoid some confusion. Of course, it might introduce new confusions but it's a game, somebody somewhere will get confused.

David Jensen
Axis & Allies.org
http://www.axisandalies.org
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Dan
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*snicker*

This is what BGG gets for raging against paper money for so long.

POOF!!! Gone!

----

Kidding aside, I would have thought that the paper money would have been one of the cheapest things in the box. O.o
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Blair Riding
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How long before some helpful geek uploads printable IPCs here?
 
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John Mendenhall
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blair524 wrote:
How long before some helpful geek uploads printable IPCs here?


There you go. I wondered how long it would take before someone came up with that idea. Print out the IPC's to your hearts content now.


if someone wouldn't mind loading them up......
 
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Kory Kehrli
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You are not over reacting, well not excessively anyway. The overall skimping on this game was a bad idea. A cheap price is nice, but actually having a quality game is worth the little bit extra. My friends and I have bought and played almost all the various Axis ad Allies games out there and this one was a serious disappointment, The lack of money can be easily overcome, if you can't figure out a way around that issue, I don't understand how you can play a game as challenging as axis and allies in the first place. The two really annoying issues for me are the lack of markers/chips that come with the game, those things cost like a penny per dozen and they can't even provide you with enough to actually play the game. We found that we had trouble even setting up the initial board becasue with so few chips we were forced to simply throw out extra minitures in their sted. This resulted in some seriously annoying arguments about where these troops were actually stationed because the board has now been redone making it very pretty and very small. The Germans have one very large cluster frak to deal with and God help them if the want to build any units in the first round when there are no more morker/tokens. We could only play by scavenging tokens from the revised edition, which we have also decided is a far superior map and have resolved to use that board and pieces with the new rules in order to make an actually fun and playable version. The best part of this game is the new unit models. Those are sooo going into the old game. And the board is getting pasted to the wall as a purely visual reference.
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Dale Ridder
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Hmmm, the does not have Italy, after having added in the Anniversary edition. That is somewhat bizarre, but then Hasbro is a toy company not a game company. Given that, the question becomes do I buy the game for the pieces to use in other games, and then have the board for my game design class to use. From looking at the board, I am not sure of that. This is a case where I would like to see the game out of the box before buying it, specifically the board. Not having Italy really reduces the value of the game as well to me. I do not understand that one at all, and view it as a major flaw.

No research whatsoever? I would guess that is to appeal to that block that wants a totally predictable game. War is not predictable however, and ignoring technology and its effects makes the game a slightly more advanced version of Risk in my view. Part of the interest in the game is watching the players juggle technology development and unit purchasing, which is what really occurred. Not even having that as an option is another major flaw in my view.

As for the missing money, I regard that as a major problem. I run Classic Axis and Allies as part of a historical gaming class that I teach in the summer and now in the winter. Most of the kids have never played Axis and Allies, and I run the game as the gamemaster. The only way that I can control and keep track of what is being spent and what is being saved is through actual IPC certificates. Without them, I would not even try it.

Three major flaws in the game basically makes it a non-purchase, except for maybe the additional units, as Hasbro will not sell sets of components. Since I have several copies of Anniversary, not sure that I need the units that badly.
 
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