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Fury of Dracula (second edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Mina Harker special resupply ability - timing question rss

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Artie Heinrich
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Hi everybody,

when playing Fury of Dracula the following rules questions concerning Mina Harkers special ability (when resupplying you get an extra Item or Event card) came up:

1) How exactly is the timing of this ability, that is: when exactly does Mina have to announce if and which extra card she will draw?
- A: Mina has to declare at the beginning of the resupply action which extra card (if any) she wants to draw, before drawing and looking at any of the cards.
- B: She can draw the regular cards and look at them one by one before declaring if she will use her ability and which card she will take. (So she could wait if the Event card she draws is a Hunter or Dracula card before deciding if she will draw another one.)

This really makes a big difference regarding the power level of the ability - so how do you play it?

2) It has been clarified that Mina can use her ability when resupplying in a Small City to draw an Item card. It has also been stated that when resupplying a Hunter does not need to draw all the cards and can for example forgo drawing an event card. So the question came up: can Mina resupply in a Small Town, then forgo drawing the (regular) Event card but use her ability to draw an Item card? Is this a legal action?

Again this makes a difference, because if Mina is forced to draw an Event card in this scenario that means possibly strengthening Dracula, whereas otherwise she can just equip without danger.

Thanks for your help,

Artie

(Edits because I translated some game terms wrongly from the german version :-/
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Han_Heinrich wrote:
1) How exactly is the timing of this ability, that is: when exactly does Mina have to announce if and which extra card she will draw?
- A: Mina has to declare at the beginning of the resupply action which extra card (if any) she wants to draw, before drawing and looking at any of the cards.
- B: She can draw the regular cards and look at them one by one before declaring if she will use her ability and which card she will take. (So she could wait if the event card she draws is a Hunter or Dracula card before deciding if she will draw another one.)

This really makes a big difference regarding the power level of the ability - so how do you play it?


We play that she has to announce type and quantity for both types of cards before any draws. So in a Large City, she can draw anything up to 2+1 or 1+2 (Event/Item), must state how many of each, then draw.

Quote:
2) It has been clarified that Mina can use her ability when resupplying in a Small City to draw an Equipment card. It has also been stated that when resupplying a Hunter does not need to draw all the cards and can for example forgo drawing an event card. So the question came up: can Mina resupply in a Small Town, then forgo drawing the (regular) Event card but use her ability to draw an Equipment card? Is this a legal action?

Again this makes a difference, because if Mina is forced to draw an event card in this scenario that means possibly strengthening Dracula, whereas otherwise she can just equip without danger.


We play that she can pick up an Item and no Event if she chooses. As with #1, must declare before any draws.
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Zsolt Nagy
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The FAQ is clear on point #2: Mina's ability is an EXTRA card draw. In order to draw an item in a small city she has to draw an event first.

On point #1 we play that it is not needed to announce beforehand how many and which type of cards Mina draws, but in order to resolve timing conflicts the drawn card has to be resolved or decided about to be kept or not immediately before the next one is drawn.

Example: Mina is in a large city, and draws an event: Devilish Power for Dracula. Dracula has already 4 event cards, he has to decide if he keeps this new card, and if yes, what he discards to make place for it. After Dracula decided, Mina can draw the next card.
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Travis Hall
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Nagypapi wrote:
The FAQ is clear on point #2: Mina's ability is an EXTRA card draw. In order to draw an item in a small city she has to draw an event first.

I don't know if you've managed to find an FAQ which has been updated since what I have, but as far as I can see, the FAQ does not address the issue at all. The FAQ does have a question about Mina Harker's special ability, but all the answer to that question tells us is that if Mina draws an Event card in a small city, the card she draws using her special ability can be either an Event card or an Item. (That is, she is not restricted to drawing a second card of the same type.) That doesn't tell us anything about what happens if Mina resupplies without drawing an Event card in a small city.

Reading the rulebook, though, page 15 tells us that "The Hunter can draw one Event card" when resupplying in a small city. It does not say that the Hunter must draw an Event card when resupplying in a small city, only that he or she can.

I'd have to pull out my set to check the exact wording of Mina's ability, but IIRC it allows her to draw an extra Event or Item card when resupplying. That would allow her to draw one extra card in addition to whatever other cards are drawn as per the normal course of events, even if that is no cards at all.

 
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Zsolt Nagy
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Mina's ability says: "Mina Harker gets one extra Item or Event card
(her choice) when resupplying."

From the Faq:
"Q: If Mina Harker is in a small city and chooses to draw
an Event card
, can the extra card she draws be an Item or
Event card, or must it also be an Event card?
A: Mina can choose to draw either an Event card or an
Item card as her extra card."

(Emphasis is mine.)

If Mina doesn't draw a card in a city she is not resupplying. Resupplying means drawing card(s). She has to draw a card to draw an extra card.

I am not a native English speaker but as far as I know 'extra' means an addition you get on something. If you don't get this something, there is no extra...
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Artie Heinrich
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Hi Zsolt,

Thank you for your answer. I agree with your explanation. It is good to know the original english wording, as game text often looses something in translation. I also like the game balance - if Mina wants to equip she has to risk helping Dracula.

With the timing I think I will go with the way Rauli described (my point 1-A), as this seems to bit a little bit cleaner. I'm still interested in how other groups play this.

Regards,

Artie
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Zsolt Nagy
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You are welcome Artie.

Actually the open-ended way to draw cards are also easy to handle. You know exactly what can be drawn according to the rules, and you do it one by one, and you can stop drawing if you wish.
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Travis Hall
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Nagypapi wrote:
Mina's ability says: "Mina Harker gets one extra Item or Event card (her choice) when resupplying."

From the Faq:
"Q: If Mina Harker is in a small city and chooses to draw
an Event card
, can the extra card she draws be an Item or
Event card, or must it also be an Event card?
A: Mina can choose to draw either an Event card or an
Item card as her extra card."

Yep, precisely. A conditional statement says absolutely nothing about the case when the condition is not met. "If I am out of milk, I will go to the supermarket." There is no assurance that I will not go to the supermarket if I have milk. What if I am out of eggs? I will still go to the supermarket to buy my eggs.

Q: If Mina Harker is in a small city and resupplies, but chooses not to draw an Event card, can she draw an Item card with her special ability?

The answer is not provided by the FAQ. It says that Mina can draw either an Event card or an Item card as her extra card if she draws an Event card, but that is not this case, so the answer does not apply at all.

Nagypapi wrote:
If Mina doesn't draw a card in a city she is not resupplying. Resupplying means drawing card(s).

That's not what the rules say. The rules say that the player chooses to either resupply, rest or trade. Furthermore, the rules say that when the hunter resupplies in a small city, an Event card can (not must) be drawn. The rules never say that one or more cards must be drawn when resupplying.

In fact, the rules specifically list the case of resupplying at Castle Dracula, when the hunter may not normally draw a card at all. If it were necessary to draw a card when resupplying, resupplying at Castle Dracula would not be possible - not just a form of resupplying involving drawing no cards, but a completely disallowed option.

(And in fact there is a case listed in which resupplying is disallowed entirely: when the hunter is at sea. In this case, the hunter does not get an action phase at all, so is never posed the question of which option to take.)

And by the principle of resupplying requiring the hunter to draw one or more cards, resting would require the hunter to attempt to heal, and trading would require the hunter to give to or receive from another hunter at the same location at least one Item card. What if the hunter is fully healed in a small city with no other hunter present? Do you require that the hunter draw an Event card, even if that player prefers not to risk aiding Dracula by doing so? In fact, a fully healed hunter alone at Castle Dracula could not follow this interpretation of the rules, as the hunter cannot draw cards, heal or trade cards.

Nagypapi wrote:
She has to draw a card to draw an extra card.

The rules do not say this.

Nagypapi wrote:
I am not a native English speaker but as far as I know 'extra' means an addition you get on something. If you don't get this something, there is no extra...

One dictionary definition of "extra" is "beyond or more than what is usual, expected, or necessary; additional". If zero cards is usual and expected (as when resupplying and refusing to draw, or resupplying at Castle Dracula), a single card would satisfy the definition of "extra".

Now, one could argue that the dictionary definition of "extra" does not fully qualify correct usage of the word. However, I haven't yet seen support for this, so this argument is tenuous at best.
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Joe Reil
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I know this is an old thread, but this topic is coming up in the recent PBF games... My interpretation agrees with Nagypapi. I think too much is being made of "can", FFG rulebooks often have holes in them and given that the only thing that happens when you resupply is to draw cards it stands to reason that Resupply = Drawing cards. If you don't want to draw any cards you say "I take no action" not "I take a Resupply action and forgo drawing any cards".

I realize that the rules, as written, can be interpreted either way, I'm just trying to look at this with common sense.

Wraith wrote:
In fact, the rules specifically list the case of resupplying at Castle Dracula, when the hunter may not normally draw a card at all. If it were necessary to draw a card when resupplying, resupplying at Castle Dracula would not be possible - not just a form of resupplying involving drawing no cards, but a completely disallowed option.


My copy of the rules dies say that the Resupply action is not available at Castle Dracula.

Quote:
And by the principle of resupplying requiring the hunter to draw one or more cards, resting would require the hunter to attempt to heal, and trading would require the hunter to give to or receive from another hunter at the same location at least one Item card.


This seems like a logical interpretation. If you don't want to do any of these things just say "I take no action" not "I rest, but not really", or "I resupply, but not really" or "I trade, but not really".

Quote:
What if the hunter is fully healed in a small city with no other hunter present? Do you require that the hunter draw an Event card, even if that player prefers not to risk aiding Dracula by doing so? In fact, a fully healed hunter alone at Castle Dracula could not follow this interpretation of the rules, as the hunter cannot draw cards, heal or trade cards.


No, you just say "I take no action", as clearly allowed by the rules and as clearly required at Castle Dracula which specifically disallows all Resupply, Rest or Trade actions.

Quote:
None of this is required, because the rules do not require you to take an action.


Exactly, so why go through the rigamarole of saying "I resupply, but not really", etc., when you can just say "I take no action"? The simpler interpretation is that a "Resupply" action is drawing a card, if you want to draw a card you Resupply, if you want to Resupply, you draw a card, if you don't want to do any of that, take a different action or forgo your action.

Quote:
Nagypapi wrote:
She has to draw a card to draw an extra card.

The rules do not say this.


Not explicitly, but they do imply it. As this is an FFG rulebook, this is good enough for me and it's still the simplest interpretation.

Quote:
One dictionary definition of "extra" is "beyond or more than what is usual, expected, or necessary; additional". If zero cards is usual and expected (as when resupplying and refusing to draw, or resupplying at Castle Dracula), a single card would satisfy the definition of "extra".


Zero cards is usual and expected when taking no action, not when Resupplying which exists for the specific purpose of drawing cards. Resupplying is not possible at Castle Dracula so what happens when you Resupply there is not relevant.
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H-B-G
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I also believe that Mina must draw an event, before her ability allows her to an item.

Quote:
B. Resupply
Resupplying allows the Hunter to draw Item
and Event cards. The exact cards that the
Hunter can draw depend on his current location:

Small City: The Hunter can draw
one Event card


I take from this that (as the first part of the rule says), the entries list the exact options for performing resupply in the different type of locations. The listing for Small City does not list drawing no cards as an option therefore it isn't one.
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brian
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There is no need for an FAQ to clarify anything as the way it is written is clear enough.

Mina's Organization ability is very clear that it is 1) an EXTRA card taken while 2) she is resupplying. Resupplying in a Small city means first taking an Event card. After Mina takes this Event card, she may then take another Event or an Item.

She is not allowed to just take an Item in a small city without first taking a gamble on an Event draw.

The FAQ is just clarifying that she may indeed take as her extra card an Item from a Small city which typically only gives Events.

I don't see where an FAQ answer needs to be revised. it's like asking if Mina goes after Van Helsing in turn order: Yes, it is on the card!
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Klaus
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I tend to agree with you, but there's a formal problem with that reading.

Manual, pg. 15 wrote:
If there are no encounters in the Hunter’s
current location, he may do one of the following
things:


A: Rest
B: Resupply
C: Trade

There's no D: Do nothing. It's implied that 'may' in this context means you can choose not to do any of those things too. But if you read it that way, there's no reason not to read 'allows' and 'can' under the resupply section the same way. I. e. you can take a resupply action without being forced to draw cards the same way that you can have an action phase without being forced to either rest, resupply or trade.

The strict alternative reading would mean all hunters have to resupply with an event in a small city if they do neither rest nor trade, since there's no 'D: Do nothing' option.
 
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Valery Prikhodko
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Hannibal Rex wrote:
I tend to agree with you, but there's a formal problem with that reading.


Please read manual carefully. "He may do one of the following thing" not a must do. He may do one of the following thing or do nothing.
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Klaus
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Legion of DOOM wrote:

Please read manual carefully. "He may do one of the following thing" not a must do. He may do one of the following thing or do nothing.


Yes, and it also says "He can draw one event", not "he must draw"

That's exactly the point.
 
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Valery Prikhodko
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Hannibal Rex wrote:
Legion of DOOM wrote:

Please read manual carefully. "He may do one of the following thing" not a must do. He may do one of the following thing or do nothing.


Yes, and it also says "He can draw one event", not "he must draw"

That's exactly the point.


I suggest you open English dictionary and find exact meaning of the verb "can".

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Günter Immeyer
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I just did (look up the definitions of "can") and guess what: "can" can have quite a lot of different meanings in the English language, ranging from "to be able to" to "to be allowed to / may"...

My English teacher used to say to our class "Y'all can do your homework now!". Probably each and every one of us understood that to be an option (as in "may do"), and most of the time, absolutely nobody actually exercised that option, I can assure you...

OK, seriously: I cannot understand, why there are so many different wild guesses and misinterpretations presented in this thread! The rules definitely don't say a thing about having to draw cards or even announcing the type of cards you intend to draw when taking a "Resupply" action!

I'm sorry guys, but the only sound and logic arguments I've seen in this whole thread have come from Travis Hall (Regards!). Why should anyone even develop such a strange idea that drawing cards could be mandatory when taking a "Resupply" action? The rules clearly say:

Rulebook wrote:
Resupplying allows the Hunter to draw Item and Event cards. [...] The Hunter can draw one Event card and/or one Item card.[Large City]

Isn't that clear enough that it's all optional? You can say whatever you want about the FFG designers, but don't you think they would have used a wording like "MUST" or "HAVE TO" if they really would have wanted to emphasize a compulsory effect??

Let me give you a real-life example for how "resupply" works: If you went shopping with a certain amount of cash in your pocket, wouldn't there be occasions too where you'd feel like not buying anything at all, or you'd just want to buy that one item maybe and only sometimes you'd get all the stuff you can?

Therefore, I strongly vote for the following (highly logical!) card drawing rules:

1. When Mina "resupplies" in a small city, she can draw no cards at all, a single event card, a single item card or both (and in any order she chooses!).

2. When any other hunter "resupplies" in a small city, he/she can either draw an event card or nothing at all.

3. When Mina "resupplies" in a large city, she can choose any combination of 0, 1, 2 or 3 item and/or event cards in any order she chooses (well, except 3 cards of the same type, of course!).

4. When any other hunter "resupplies" in a large city, he/she can draw no cards, a single event card, a single item card or both an item and an event card.

This is how we've been playing for years - anything else is (in my eyes) pure speculation/over-interpreting the rules.

And just to add another provocative thought to our little philosophy course here: if the waitress in a restaurant offered you some "extra" ketchup to go with your meal, would that automatically mean that your meal must already have come with a certain amount of ketchup by default?

I think not... shake
 
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brian
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Sorry, I don't buy non-native speakers how to tell me to interpret a Midwest bent to the rules. FFG is a midwest state and the way they wwrite their rules does leave a little room for ambiguity but when you use the typical application in this region, it is quite clear.

You choice is to resupply or not. If you resupply, you must draw. I really don't see any other logical argument here.

And yes, if a waitress asked if I would like "extra" ketchup, you better believe I would expect it to be above what I normally should have received.
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Joe Reil
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Miraculix wrote:
I'm sorry guys, but the only sound and logic arguments I've seen in this whole thread have come from Travis Hall (Regards!). Why should anyone even develop such a strange idea that drawing cards could be mandatory when taking a "Resupply" action? The rules clearly say:


Except that the sound and logical arguments he made were heavily based on an incorrect understanding of the rules. First he claimed that the rules allow a Resupply without drawing at Castle Dracula as evidence supporting the idea that you can perform a resupply and not draw, despite the fact that the rules clearly forbid taking any action at Castle Dracula.

Secondly was the claim that the rules do not allow an option to do nothing and therefore would otherwise "force" you to take an action you might not want to do. This is also incorrect because the rules clearly allow you to take no action. It's just called "taking no action" not "taking an action, but not really".

Quote:
Isn't that clear enough that it's all optional? You can say whatever you want about the FFG designers, but don't you think they would have used a wording like "MUST" or "HAVE TO" if they really would have wanted to emphasize a compulsory effect??


Have you read any other FFG rulebooks? I love them and their games but examples like this are very common.

In addition, they already explicitly allow an option to do nothing: taking no action. Allowing you to take an action and then do nothing with it is simply superfluous.
 
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Travis Hall
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RedShark92 wrote:
Except that the sound and logical arguments he made were heavily based on an incorrect understanding of the rules.

Unfortunately for you, disproving my arguments does not prove your case. My reading of the rules was, indeed, incorrect in at least some part (which I intend to examine in more detail), but even if every argument in favour of allowing Mina to draw an item without also drawing an event while resupplying in a small city is disproven, that still isn't enough to settle the matter in favour of the proposed alternative. You need to prove your case if you want that.

RedShark92 wrote:
I know this is an old thread, but this topic is coming up in the recent PBF games... My interpretation agrees with Nagypapi. I think too much is being made of "can", FFG rulebooks often have holes in them and given that the only thing that happens when you resupply is to draw cards it stands to reason that Resupply = Drawing cards. If you don't want to draw any cards you say "I take no action" not "I take a Resupply action and forgo drawing any cards".

I realize that the rules, as written, can be interpreted either way, I'm just trying to look at this with common sense.

The problem here is that the notion of "common sense" is based on the assumption that others agree with you. That's what makes it common sense: the fact that people have it in common. And we don't. You say, "This is common sense," I say, "No, it isn't," and there's nowhere to go from there.

You've just admitted that the rules can be interpreted contrary to your preference. Well, in cases when players do not agree on which interpretation should be used, I generally find that falling back on the precise wording of the rulebook is the only real mechanism for settling disputes. You've made it plain that you don't like to rely on FFG's rules for precise wording, and I agree that some of their rulebooks are not written with precision (and the FoD rules are notable amongst those). Unfortunately, I don't see another recourse.

So, that said, just as the rules state that a Hunter may choose to either Rest, Resupply or Trade at the appropriate time, and "may" is specifically not "must" and thus the Hunter has the option to do none of those things, I must also note that the rules state that a Hunter can draw one event card when Resupplying in a small city, and "can" is specifically not "must", "shall" or "will" and thus the option remains for the Hunter to not draw one event card when Resupplying in a small city.

I acknowledge that you prefer that the game be played differently, but that's the result of the application of the precise wording of the rulebook. Should you choose to agree with a group to play differently, that's the purview of you and that group. Should FFG even provide clarification, then I'd have to revise my stance.

The only other alternative I can see, one that may be good for when a dispute arises during a game in progress, would be to appeal to a neutral third party for a ruling. Well, you've come to this thread saying that such issues are arising during play in PbF games. I'm not involved in PbF games, and have no intention of ever being so. I'm as good a neutral party as you're ever going to get. Or you can regard your game moderator as an appropriate neutral party, in which case you'll have to be prepared for him to jump either way.

Wraith wrote:
In fact, the rules specifically list the case of resupplying at Castle Dracula, when the hunter may not normally draw a card at all. If it were necessary to draw a card when resupplying, resupplying at Castle Dracula would not be possible - not just a form of resupplying involving drawing no cards, but a completely disallowed option.


RedShark92 wrote:
My copy of the rules dies say that the Resupply action is not available at Castle Dracula.

This sort of argument has more weight when you provide the appropriate citations. Allow me...

The PDF copy of the rulebook I have immediately to hand states, on page 15, first column, under the heading "Resupply" in the list of what cards can be drawn at various locations: "Castle Dracula: The Hunter draws no cards." Here we can clearly see the implication that a non-drawing resupply is possible at Castle Dracula. If taking a resupply action at Castle Dracula is not possible, it should not appear in this list, or should appear with wording similar to: "Sea Zone: The Hunter receives no Action Phase while at sea and cannot resupply there." (From a little further down that list.)

Unfortunately, that's not all there is to the story. Page 24, third column, under the heading of "Castle Dracula", states: "A Hunter cannot rest, resupply, or trade while in Castle Dracula." Okay, so having noted that, the conclusions that I drew from the first reference are negated. A Hunter cannot draw zero cards during a resupply action at Castle Dracula, as he cannot take a resupply action at Castle Dracula at all.

(Really, it's an appalling oversight in the rulebook. There's a section of the rules devoted to telling players how to handle the Hunter's action phase, but another part of the rulebook contradicts that section on precisely that subject. There should be at least an indication in the "Hunter's Action Phase" section that players should refer to another part of the rulebook for the extra relevant rules.)

However, I'll note that "A Hunter cannot draw zero cards during a resupply action at Castle Dracula" does not imply (using the word "imply" in the sense of the discipline of logic, rather than the vernacular) that "A Hunter cannot draw zero cards during a resupply action". That statement remains unproven.

RedShark92 wrote:
Quote:
What if the hunter is fully healed in a small city with no other hunter present? Do you require that the hunter draw an Event card, even if that player prefers not to risk aiding Dracula by doing so? In fact, a fully healed hunter alone at Castle Dracula could not follow this interpretation of the rules, as the hunter cannot draw cards, heal or trade cards.


No, you just say "I take no action", as clearly allowed by the rules

Indeed, you are correct. There is no problem with forcing a Hunter to take an action he does not wish to take, as page 14 of the rulebook states, in the third column right at the bottom, "If there are no encounters in the Hunter’s current location, he may do one of the following things". As the word "may" is used here, choosing to do one of the three things that follow is optional.

However, again, note that proving that there isn't a problem with your preferred approach to the rules that could cause a Hunter to draw an event card that he does not wish to draw does not prove that this approach is the correct one. It simply proves that this particular problem does not exist.

RedShark92 wrote:
Exactly, so why go through the rigamarole of saying "I resupply, but not really",

You would say, "I resupply, but draw no event cards," when you wish to resupply without drawing any event cards. "I resupply, but not really," never enters into it. The intent is to "really" use the resupply action. Granted, the motivation behind that intent is nothing to do with the drawing of event cards in the regular manner, but I don't see that there is necessarily a problem with choosing an option due to motivation other than the most common motivation.

So let's stay away from such phrasing as "I resupply, but not really". It's not a phrasing that anybody in favour of allowing Mina to draw an item card in a small city without drawing an event card is likely to use, and so attempts to make that phrasing look silly don't prove anything at all.

RedShark92 wrote:
Quote:
Nagypapi wrote:
She has to draw a card to draw an extra card.

The rules do not say this.

Not explicitly, but they do imply it. As this is an FFG rulebook, this is good enough for me and it's still the simplest interpretation.

But you play with others, not alone. Good enough for you is not necessarily good enough for the group, and others do not necessarily agree that the rules imply what you say they imply, nor that yours is the simplest interpreation.

RedShark92 wrote:
Quote:
One dictionary definition of "extra" is "beyond or more than what is usual, expected, or necessary; additional". If zero cards is usual and expected (as when resupplying and refusing to draw, or resupplying at Castle Dracula), a single card would satisfy the definition of "extra".

RedShark, you provide counter-argument to this, and I'll have to ask forebearance as I break that counter-argument down into very small pieces. I believe it is the only way to examine that counter-argument in the necessary detail.

RedShark92 wrote:
Zero cards is usual and expected when taking no action,

True, but irrelevant to the conversation.

RedShark92 wrote:
not when Resupplying which exists for the specific purpose of drawing cards.

That is arguable, at best, and others disagree. I say that when Resupplying but choosing to draw no cards while Resupplying, zero cards is usual and expected. I further say that when Resupplying but choosing to draw one card, one card is usual and expected, and similarly for two cards. Thus, there is no problem stemming from the use of the word "extra" in the rules.

However (and this is the flip side of my points regarding proof above), this does not prove that a Hunter can choose to draw no cards while Resupplying. That is something that has to be proven or disproven with other evidence.

RedShark92 wrote:
Resupplying is not possible at Castle Dracula so what happens when you Resupply there is not relevant.

True, and I think we can now leave discussion of that case behind us.

And finally...
RedShark92 wrote:
Allowing you to take an action and then do nothing with it is simply superfluous.

Obviously, it isn't. If it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. Allowing a Hunter to take the Resupply action and then not draw the card that the Resupply action would normally permit the Hunter to draw also allows Mina to use the Resupply action to draw an item card and nothing else in a small city. You might feel that this is impermissible, but it certainly is not superfluous.
 
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Valery Prikhodko
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Wraith, if you wish to create Home Rules - it's up to you. You can freely draw from 0 to 50 events of items cards. It's really not a problem.
BUT. The Rules cleary state when you Resupply you mast DRAW cards. Mina may draw additional card. That's All. If you able to find something more in the rulebook I doubt you ability to think logically.
 
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Joe Reil
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I've submitted a question to FFG on this. I'll add a note here when and if they respond. I may have time later to respond to Wraith's post in detail, but there's a lot there and regardless, I stand by what I wrote.

FFG rulebooks are notorious for unclear wording. I just found another example, where the rulebook directly contradicts itself regarding when Hide does or doesn't drop off the trail, so I don't give a whole lot of weight to "can" instead of "must" in the case of a Resupply.

To me it's clear: If you want to do nothing, you forgo an action. If you want to draw cards you Resupply. If someone disagrees and enjoys the game that way, I'm not going to go to their house and demand they play it my way, but I'm also not backing down from my interpretation without an official word from someone involved with rules at FFG.
 
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Travis Hall
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Legion of DOOM wrote:
BUT. The Rules cleary state when you Resupply you mast DRAW cards. Mina may draw additional card. That's All. If you able to find something more in the rulebook I doubt you ability to think logically.

If that's so, you can obviously provide the quote that makes this so clear. Please do so.

As yet, I have not been able to find any statement that says that a Hunter must draw cards when resupplying. The rulebook says can.
 
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Travis Hall
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RedShark92 wrote:
I've submitted a question to FFG on this.

It'd be nice to have an answer from them, yes. It may be that the designers there always intended that the game be played according to your preference, and that the issue simply stems from a lack of clarity in the wording of the rules. That wouldn't surprise me at all.

RedShark92 wrote:
I'm also not backing down from my interpretation without an official word from someone involved with rules at FFG.

You already did. You stated that the rules could be interpreted either way. In the case of such ambiguity, if two participants in a game disagree, I have to go by exactly what is written, as far as that is possible. For that, see my earlier post.
 
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Klaus
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Legion, please cite where exactly in the rules the word 'must' is used in conjunction with drawing cards.

AS for the rest; It's a good catch that the is both an entry for resupplying in Castle Dracula, which implies the possibility of resupplying without drawing cards, as well as a later statement that no resupplying (or resting, or trading) at all is possible there.

This isn't the only example of ambiguous writing in the book. Now, RedShark and I both agree that the writing on resupplying is ambiguous enough to warrant a precise definition, even if our personal opinions on the matter fall on different sides.

Taking the discussion out of the realm of pure semantics, which may not be helpful at all, I'll try to look at it from a game balance angle.

Now, Mina is without doubt the most handicapped of the hunters already. She has the unique advantage of getting items in small cities.

Does doing this without also drawing events break the game in any way? No.
Does it make her more powerful? Yes.
Does it make her more powerful than any of the other hunters? No.

Even when played that way, Mina remains the most vulnerable hunter. So, balancing-wise, I think she deserves the boost.

Even so, looked at rationally, it's a decidedly minor point.
 
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Valery Prikhodko
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Wraith wrote:
Legion of DOOM wrote:
BUT. The Rules cleary state when you Resupply you mast DRAW cards. Mina may draw additional card. That's All. If you able to find something more in the rulebook I doubt you ability to think logically.

If that's so, you can obviously provide the quote that makes this so clear. Please do so.

As yet, I have not been able to find any statement that says that a Hunter must draw cards when resupplying. The rulebook says can.


Open rulebook on page 15 and read paragraph B.Resupply carefully. Wich words do you not understand?
 
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