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Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization» Forums » Rules

Subject: Engineering genius rss

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staffan t
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Can I opt to use Masonry for the first and last step of a wonder or do I need to build several steps in order ?

If I can choose which steps to build for 1 action, can I play Engineering genius for the "middle" step ?
 
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Matteo Badinelli
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If you play Engineering genius, you applies only the card effect (that is if you have masonry you can't apply its bonus to the card) but you must build the steps in order.
 
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Francesco Pessina
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Step must be build... in step! You cannot jump a step, and make it later! ;)
 
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M.J.E. Hendriks
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That's right.

The steps in building a wonder are ALWAYS in order, starting on the left, going to the right.

You can never ever choose to complete a different step than the most left uncompleted step.
 
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Daniel Corban
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In case it wasn't clear from the previous replies (it wasn't to me), if you play an engineering genius card, you may only complete one stage of a wonder, even if you have masonry/architecture/engineering.
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Gordon Adams
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Thanks Daniel...jotted that down in my notebook
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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dcorban wrote:
In case it wasn't clear from the previous replies (it wasn't to me), if you play an engineering genius card, you may only complete one stage of a wonder, even if you have masonry/architecture/engineering.


Am I understanding this correctly to say that if you have Engineering Genius and a technology that allows you to build two steps of a wonder in one action, you cannot use the EG to build one of your two steps and regular rocks to build the other in the same action? Or are you saying the EG applies only to one of the stages, but you can complete more stages in the action by normal means?
 
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Jean-Michel Petit
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You can only use engineering genius on one step of the wonder for 1 civil action. Using the ability of your blue technology cards to construct other steps of the wonder cost another civil action. Engineering genius can only be use on 1 step for 1 civil action.

Cheers

Micquebec

Golux13 wrote:
dcorban wrote:
In case it wasn't clear from the previous replies (it wasn't to me), if you play an engineering genius card, you may only complete one stage of a wonder, even if you have masonry/architecture/engineering.


Am I understanding this correctly to say that if you have Engineering Genius and a technology that allows you to build two steps of a wonder in one action, you cannot use the EG to build one of your two steps and regular rocks to build the other in the same action? Or are you saying the EG applies only to one of the stages, but you can complete more stages in the action by normal means?
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Tedd Mullally
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I respectfully disagree with the opinion that Engineering Genius does not work in combination with the masonry category.

This is in direct contradiction to the explanation of the action cards.
Some action cards include the effect of another action. Two examples of this are Efficient Upgrade and Engineering Genius.

If the opinion on Engineering Genius is applied to the Efficient Upgrade action, then you ONLY receive the discount of the number of resources on the Action card and NOT the bonuses of the Masonry. Yet the Masonry card say the discount applies to ALL Urban buildings regardless of whether they are built via direct civil action or the result of an Efficient Upgrade card.

Therefore, it is my opinion that Engineering Genius enables the Build One Stage of a Wonder action and that action is enhanced by the masonry card to allow two stages to be built. This action receives the benefit of discounted resources via the Engineering Genius Card
 
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Tedd Mullally
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OK I stand corrected... by myself! blush

The back page of the rules (pg 20) clearly stated (Engineering Genius can only be used to build 1 stage of a Wonder even if the technology allows you to build multiple stages)

I was treating it as if it said (Engineering Genius can only be used to discount 1 stage of a WOnder...) but clearly the designer disagrees.

So I lower my vote on consistency in the game design whistle
 
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Matthew M
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Tedd5 wrote:


I was treating it as if it said (Engineering Genius can only be used to discount 1 stage of a WOnder...) but clearly the designer disagrees.


Yup. You were treating it that way, but that's not what the card says. The card starts "Build 1 stage of a Wonder". Engineering Genius strictly says 1 stage. ...note that it does not mention actions. If it said "you have one extra civil action for the purpose of building a Wonder" then it would interact with Masonry, which triggers off of using a civil action to build a Wonder. As Engineering Genius makes no mention of actions it does not trigger Masonry.

If you go strictly by the wording of the card you can see why the designer's interpretation is, in fact, the only one possible.

-MMM
 
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Eric Brosius
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Tedd5 wrote:
So I lower my vote on consistency in the game design whistle


I respectfully disagree. You have actions to spend.

You have the choice of:

(1) Using an action to play the Engineering Genius card, or

(2) Using an action to trigger the special ability of the Masonry card.

You are asking to split the action between these two. You can only use an Action in one way.
 
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Michael
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Further question
The following case: I have a special technology, which makes urban buildings cheaper.
When I use a yellow card, which lets me build an urban building for 2 resources less, may I use the special technology to build even more cheaply?
 
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Matthew M
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brauerle wrote:
The following case: I have a special technology, which makes urban buildings cheaper.
When I use a yellow card, which lets me build an urban building for 2 resources less, may I use the special technology to build even more cheaply?


Yes. Because the Masonry card does not require that you spend an action on Building to get the discount. It is always there. Therefore you still get the discount if you spend an action on Play an Action Card.

-MMM
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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Octavian wrote:
brauerle wrote:
The following case: I have a special technology, which makes urban buildings cheaper.
When I use a yellow card, which lets me build an urban building for 2 resources less, may I use the special technology to build even more cheaply?


Yes. Because the Masonry card does not require that you spend an action on Building to get the discount. It is always there. Therefore you still get the discount if you spend an action on Play an Action Card.

-MMM


Can you please post the full text of the Engineering Genius card? I'm still troubled by the suggestion that I can't use it with Masonry. My understanding of the Action cards is that most of them are used to enhance civil actions that you take (e.g., by making things cheaper). The notable exceptions would be the ones that simply give you CP, Science, or resources; but other than those, I had thought they were all essentially applied when you are taking another action.
 
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Matthew M
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All yellow action cards must be played by spending a civil action on the Play an Action Card option. Many of the action cards will give you the same effect as having spent a civil action on another option (produce a worker, build a building, etc) with a bit of a bonus. But you are still fundamentally spending your action on playing the card and then doing what the card says.

The Engineering Genius card begins "Build ONE stage of a wonder.." (emphasis mine). As such that is what you may do. You may not build more than one stage of a wonder using Engineering Genius if you also have Masonry because the wonder building bonus of Masonry is triggered by spending a civil action to construct a wonder. As you spent the civil action to play a card it does not trigger that bonus, even if the card allows you to build one stage of a wonder.

-MMM
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Dan Schaeffer
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Octavian wrote:
All yellow action cards must be played by spending a civil action on the Play an Action Card option. Many of the action cards will give you the same effect as having spent a civil action on another option (produce a worker, build a building, etc) with a bit of a bonus. But you are still fundamentally spending your action on playing the card and then doing what the card says.

The Engineering Genius card begins "Build ONE stage of a wonder.." (emphasis mine). As such that is what you may do. You may not build more than one stage of a wonder using Engineering Genius if you also have Masonry because the wonder building bonus of Masonry is triggered by spending a civil action to construct a wonder. As you spent the civil action to play a card it does not trigger that bonus, even if the card allows you to build one stage of a wonder.

-MMM


I understand your point, but I'd still like to read the entire text of the card. It seems just as possible to me, without seeing it, that the card is meant to emphasize the cost savings rather than the number of stages of the wonder being built. Masonry says "You may build up to 2 stages of a wonder for 1 civil action" -- I know that because there's an image here, unlike the EG card -- but it doesn't say anything about cost or where that civil action "comes from."
 
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Daniel Corban
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Engineering Genius: "Build one stage of a wonder; pay X less."

Note that the card doesn't say: "This round, you have 1 extra civil action and extra X resources for building a stage of a wonder."
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Dan Schaeffer
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dcorban wrote:
Engineering Genius: "Build one stage of a wonder; pay X less."

Note that the card doesn't say: "This round, you have 1 extra civil action and extra X resources for building a stage of a wonder."


Thank you. The text makes it much clearer how that card is intended to work.

(Note that it wouldn't necessarily have to say "you have 1 extra civil action" to have a different meaning. If it simply said "Build one stage of a wonder for X fewer resources," it would at least be ambiguous. as to whether it would or wouldn't work with Masonry.)
 
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