Recommend
39 
 Thumb up
 Hide
56 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

18xx» Forums » General

Subject: Mayfair launching new 18XX line in 2010 rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Michael Webb
United States
Western Mitten
flag msg tools
designer
badge
GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Interesting little blurb about 18XX in an interview here:

http://www.pulpgamer.com/myriadgames/134643/myriad-games-gam...

Apparently Mayfair is going to attempt a "relaunch" of the 18XX line along the same lines as they are doing with the Empire Builder series and are working with Tresham on an introductory point for the series that will be expandable using an "open source licensing program" like what they're planning to do with Steam.

My initial inclination is to assume that this is going to be a modified 1825 set, but who knows? Maybe it'll be something more generic to maximize expandability.
18 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hopefully they aren't going to go on a rampage trying to protect their newly created license. I like the vibrant small-press 18xx stuff now.

B>
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Webb
United States
Western Mitten
flag msg tools
designer
badge
GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would assume the idea is to create a new "line" of 18XX titled something specific, and then trying to license out expansions / variations in that particular universe.

Trying to actually impede small press releases is a fool's errand at this point, and I don't think it would actually even be possible. The cat is so far out of the bag at this point that it's on a different continent.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CortexBomb wrote:
I would assume the idea is to create a new "line" of 18XX titled something specific, and then trying to license out expansions / variations in that particular universe.

Trying to actually impede small press releases is a fool's errand at this point, and I don't think it would actually even be possible. The cat is so far out of the bag at this point that it's on a different continent.


In which case I'd be all for it. It would be nice to see new 18xx stuff, but if the target is an introductory game, I wonder how the 18EZ folks feel about it.

B>
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill J
United States
Batavia
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmb
Of course, IF they did want to enforce it, they could always file a grievance in their home state of Illinois. Imagine that...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Webb
United States
Western Mitten
flag msg tools
designer
badge
GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thepackrat wrote:
CortexBomb wrote:
I would assume the idea is to create a new "line" of 18XX titled something specific, and then trying to license out expansions / variations in that particular universe.

Trying to actually impede small press releases is a fool's errand at this point, and I don't think it would actually even be possible. The cat is so far out of the bag at this point that it's on a different continent.


In which case I'd be all for it. It would be nice to see new 18xx stuff, but if the target is an introductory game, I wonder how the 18EZ folks feel about it.

B>


I guess I don't really care all that much. I think they're going to have an open window to sell their stuff in the interim (at least a year it sounds like) and if it's a good product it'll do well, if it's not, then it will fail. They were already going up against two quality print and play maps (18AL, 18GA), so it's not as though they were without competition to start with.

I'm glad to hear that Mayfair is actually opting to support this family of games actively again. I think 18XX is always going to remain a niche item, but having a major publisher support an introductory game could be good for it and could end up drawing in a lot more people in the long run.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Are they going to price-fix these?

Are they going to claim that all 18xx games are their intellectual property?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Webb
United States
Western Mitten
flag msg tools
designer
badge
GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
byronczimmer wrote:
Are they going to price-fix these?

Are they going to claim that all 18xx games are their intellectual property?


My guess would be that the 20% discount cap will stand and as I said, I don't think they would want to make a claim on the 18XX intellectual property as such and if they did they wouldn't have a leg to stand on because of the long-standing situation.

Could we please keep the acrimony to a minimum?
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Webb
United States
Western Mitten
flag msg tools
designer
badge
GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
On an aside, any 18XXer complaining about price-fixing amuses me. The main sources for 18XX games are Deep Thought Games and self-publishers; and both "price fix" in the sense that they set a price and you either pay or don't. The Mayfair games that exist are relative discounts in this context, as any discount is more than one would usually get.
23 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
byronczimmer wrote:
Are they going to price-fix these?

Probably. They probably won't release the rules online, either.

Quote:

Are they going to claim that all 18xx games are their intellectual property?

A much more interesting question. As discussed probably not, but it'll be interesting to see what sort of carrot or stick incentives they wave at potential licensees. Maybe their actions over Steam stuff will provide guidance.

B>
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Taylor-Smith
Canada
Okotoks
Alberta
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My understanding is that Mayfair did make Bill Dixon get Tresham's okay before publishing 1856 and 1870. Bill's playtest gang, of which I was one, didn't believe it was really necessary but it was Mayfair/Darwin's call. Bill got a royalty but I believe Tresham got something as well from Mayfair via a licence.

I should point out that is also my understanding that Mr. Tresham made some money licencing out just the copyrighted game name 'Civilization' to Microprose (via Avalon Hill) just before Bill Dixon's submissions and learned the value of protecting intellectual property. In 1998 after some legal dancing (since the Avalon Hill licence was used up) Francis sold Hartland Trefoil Ltd. to Micropose for an undisclosed sum but I don't believe it was insubstantial. I wouldn't be quick to dismiss talk of Mayfair protecting the 18xx system. The IP would probably be based on the tile laying idea.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Other-Asia
msg tools
badge
Avatar
I guess this explains why some UK game stores recieved copies of 1825 Units 1, 2 and 3 earlier this month. Maybe Mr Tresham was getting rid of spare 1825 Units before the Mayfair reprint/redesign.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
White Settlement
TX
flag msg tools
Only 6 months until the next round.
badge
A little lower and to the left, please.
Avatar
thepackrat wrote:
In which case I'd be all for it. It would be nice to see new 18xx stuff, but if the target is an introductory game, I wonder how the 18EZ folks feel about it.

B>

I just found this, and my heart stopped. I need a stiff drink, and a quiet place to go cry. soblue
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morgan Dontanville
United States
Charlottesville
VA
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Plate of Shrimp.
badge
Here we are folks, the dream we all dream of.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
drewdane wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
In which case I'd be all for it. It would be nice to see new 18xx stuff, but if the target is an introductory game, I wonder how the 18EZ folks feel about it.

B>

I just found this, and my heart stopped. I need a stiff drink, and a quiet place to go cry. soblue


No biggie.

If the game is good, then it should sell itself.
15 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maaike Fest
Netherlands
Nijmegen
Gelderland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sisteray wrote:
drewdane wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
In which case I'd be all for it. It would be nice to see new 18xx stuff, but if the target is an introductory game, I wonder how the 18EZ folks feel about it.

B>

I just found this, and my heart stopped. I need a stiff drink, and a quiet place to go cry. soblue


No biggie.

If the game is good, then it should sell itself.


Indeed . And 18EZ will come out earlier so perhaps Mayfair should be the one having a good cry
5 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
White Settlement
TX
flag msg tools
Only 6 months until the next round.
badge
A little lower and to the left, please.
Avatar
Fwiw, he doesn't use the word "introductory." He refers to it as being "accessible." That's the same word he used to describe the Settlers gallery edition... Maybe I have nothing to worry about.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Webb
United States
Western Mitten
flag msg tools
designer
badge
GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
drewdane wrote:
Fwiw, he doesn't use the word "introductory." He refers to it as being "accessible." That's the same word he used to describe the Settlers gallery edition... Maybe I have nothing to worry about.


It's like I said above, if your product is good, it will sell. If it isn't, then it would be doing poorly because of 18AL and 18GA anyway.

FWIW, I think accessible and introductory are rough synonyms in this case, both are things that I would look for if I was a new player, and I don't think there's much delineation between the two in these sorts of cases.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
White Settlement
TX
flag msg tools
Only 6 months until the next round.
badge
A little lower and to the left, please.
Avatar
CortexBomb wrote:
FWIW, I think accessible and introductory are rough synonyms in this case...

Just trying to get a laugh. I have talked it over with Clay, and we see no reason to stop what we're doing. I've already spent (way) too much money to simply abandon the project, and it's a couple weeks away from release. We're committed! (Or we should be. )
As you said, if it's a good game (and it is) it will do well.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Webb
United States
Western Mitten
flag msg tools
designer
badge
GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
drewdane wrote:
CortexBomb wrote:
FWIW, I think accessible and introductory are rough synonyms in this case...

Just trying to get a laugh. I have talked it over with Clay, and we see no reason to stop what we're doing. I've already spent (way) too much money to simply abandon the project, and it's a couple weeks away from release. We're committed! (Or we should be. )
As you said, if it's a good game (and it is) it will do well.


If you have faith in your product and tests have been good, then I don't think you have anything to worry about.

For one, gamers tend to collect piles of stuff, and having another intro 18XX is never a bad thing for those of us who like the things.

For two, who knows how long it will be before this Mayfair release actually shows up in stores? The tentative date is 2010, but release dates are routinely pushed back.

If the Mayfair title turns out to be a spectacular success, then you might have to rethink reprints, but I don't think you should have any problems selling through your current investment if it's a good game.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
White Settlement
TX
flag msg tools
Only 6 months until the next round.
badge
A little lower and to the left, please.
Avatar
CortexBomb wrote:
If the Mayfair title turns out to be a spectacular success, then you might have to rethink reprints, but I don't think you should have any problems selling through your current investment if it's a good game.

Ah, the benefits of POD are many!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Webb
United States
Western Mitten
flag msg tools
designer
badge
GET A SILK BAG FROM THE GRAVEYARD DUCK TO LIVE LONGER.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BrenoK wrote:
sisteray wrote:
drewdane wrote:
thepackrat wrote:
In which case I'd be all for it. It would be nice to see new 18xx stuff, but if the target is an introductory game, I wonder how the 18EZ folks feel about it.

B>

I just found this, and my heart stopped. I need a stiff drink, and a quiet place to go cry. soblue


No biggie.

If the game is good, then it should sell itself.


Doesn't really explain why 18xx usually sells poorly


It's all a matter of realistically assessing your potential target market. 18XX is a niche system, it's a long, heavy, involved train game system that generally allows players to physically bludgeon each other with the system in a variety of ways. There are a number of people who this appeals to, and a larger number of people who are not looking for this type of thing at all. The important thing is simply being realistic and scaling your production to match this reality.

I come up against this myself as someone designing AoS maps that are specifically intended for people who want the game to be more challenging. There is a niche there, and it's one that I'm glad to serve, but a lot of people aren't interested in what I'm selling. That's fine, I just have to scale the print run to match reality. It sounds like the 18EZ folks have this angle covered via POD, so cheers to them. I hope they make a few bucks on all of their time investment, or, even better, that their game is well-received by its target audience. No one gets into the train game business for the money if they have a lick of sense.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
BrenoK wrote:
Doesn't really explain why 18xx usually sells poorly :(


Conversely, I think the 18xx sell very well, surprisingly well, given the size and character of the market. I am impressed.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Keith Thomasson
United Kingdom
Near Tring
flag msg tools
badge
Good boy, Braetach!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mudhoney wrote:
I guess this explains why some UK game stores recieved copies of 1825 Units 1, 2 and 3 earlier this month. Maybe Mr Tresham was getting rid of spare 1825 Units before the Mayfair reprint/redesign.

Not relevant - Francis doesn't have any spare stock, he makes games when he can find the time and inclination to do so. He's even had to get things like rule books reprinted for another batch he is hopefully supplying to me later this week.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael B
United States
Sarasota
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The 18xx system is highly enjoyable for me and I would consider myself a casual gamer. I think Tresham is brilliant and would like to see him design more games.

I've known many people that refuse to play the 18xx system or simply don't enjoy it and their reasons are all valid:

1) The auction mechanic is confusing to new players
2) Too much down time at the end of the game between turns as people try to optimize their runs.
3) A bit too cut-throat at times since there are more opportunities to knock your opponent down a notch than to help yourself.
4) Too much math at the end of the game counting runs and determining dividends - simple math -but some just don't enjoy that.
5) There is often a train rush that determines who wins the game. If person A buys the last non-permanent train you will do better than if person B buys the last non-permanent train.

I don't find the system slow or complex, but the learning curve is a bit steep compared to a game like Chicago Express which can be picked up in 10 minutes.

I would love to see a slight re-design of the system so that it appealed to a larger audience while maintaining most of the same mechanics that make the game great.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael
Germany
Ulm
Ba-Wü
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Perhaps, you want to try 1829 Mainline, though is is not a short game either.

It is a streamlined 18xx game by Tresham settled in Great Britain.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.