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Subject: Quick start rss

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Jason Woolever
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To reduce setup time, rather than shuffle the initial ten cards of each deck, players in my playgroup opt to roll a d12 and do the following:

1: 2 coins available for first round, 5 coins available for the second round
2-6: 3 coins then 4 coins
7-11: 4 coins then 3 coins
12: 5 coins then 2 coins

While we don't mind using a single die and public rolls, if players are concerned about being able to secretly underspend, players could each have their own die and reveal the result only after the second round.
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Drew Spencer
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Does this accurately reflect the proportion of 5/2 splits etc? What is the math behind that anyway?
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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Is it that much harder/slower to shuffle ten cards than to shuffle 11 or 12 after the first two turns? I don't understand what's driving this.
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Drew Spencer
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Golux13 wrote:
Is it that much harder/slower to shuffle ten cards than to shuffle 11 or 12 after the first two turns? I don't understand what's driving this.


Regardless of whether it's much harder, this does cut out one shuffle. I actually like this variant, but there are two issues I see with it. First, from a practical perspective, I almost never have a d12 handy and don't want to store one with my Dominion game. Second, strategically you don't necessarily want people to know what split you got. I may have a 3/4 split but buy a Chapel first; I may not want people to know whether or not I'll have the 5 necessary to get a Witch on my next turn. That's a pretty minor point, but those two, and primarily the first, will probably stop me from actually using this variant.
 
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Jason Woolever
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banyan wrote:
Does this accurately reflect the proportion of 5/2 splits etc? What is the math behind that anyway?

Consider the chance of getting five coins your first five cards: (7/10)*(6/9)*(5/8)*(4/7)*(3/6)=1/12. Alternatively it is the combinations of 5 Coppers out of 7 (7!/5!/2! = 21) divided by the combinations 5 cards out of 10 (10!/5!/5! = 252). By symmetry, a 2/5 split also has probability 1/12, and the chances of 3/4 and 4/3 divide the remainder.

I agree it is not a big savings, but it does help you dive into subsequent games of a session. We shuffle our decks while we conduct our initial purchases, slipping in cards obtained, so that there is little time spent between the second and third rounds (in addition to initial shuffle time saved).
 
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Joseph Cochran
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banyan wrote:
I may have a 3/4 split but buy a Chapel first; I may not want people to know whether or not I'll have the 5 necessary to get a Witch on my next turn. That's a pretty minor point, but those two, and primarily the first, will probably stop me from actually using this variant.


Aren't discard piles open anyway? I'm not sure you have the option of hiding your hand as you discard it...
 
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Jeff Wolfe
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jsciv wrote:
banyan wrote:
I may have a 3/4 split but buy a Chapel first; I may not want people to know whether or not I'll have the 5 necessary to get a Witch on my next turn. That's a pretty minor point, but those two, and primarily the first, will probably stop me from actually using this variant.


Aren't discard piles open anyway? I'm not sure you have the option of hiding your hand as you discard it...


Only the top card in your discard pile is visible (even to you). You can decide in which order you discard your cards. So, it is legal to conceal Treasure in your hand that you did not play.
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Dan Schaeffer
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jeffwolfe wrote:
jsciv wrote:
banyan wrote:
I may have a 3/4 split but buy a Chapel first; I may not want people to know whether or not I'll have the 5 necessary to get a Witch on my next turn. That's a pretty minor point, but those two, and primarily the first, will probably stop me from actually using this variant.


Aren't discard piles open anyway? I'm not sure you have the option of hiding your hand as you discard it...


Only the top card in your discard pile is visible (even to you). You can decide in which order you discard your cards. So, it is legal to conceal Treasure in your hand that you did not play.


While this is true, my group doesn't usually bother trying to conceal how many coins we're using/not using. We may conceal what other cards from our hands are being discarded, though I think even that is of limited utility; after all, I rarely decide how to play my hand based on what I think my opponents are going to have/do in their future hands. (The only time I can think of where this might be relevant is when I'm trying to decide if I've hit the turning point and can start buying VP.)
 
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Dave G
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banyan wrote:
I may have a 3/4 split but buy a Chapel first; I may not want people to know whether or not I'll have the 5 necessary to get a Witch on my next turn. That's a pretty minor point, but those two, and primarily the first, will probably stop me from actually using this variant.


I also question how much knowing that you're going Witch/Chapel is going to change people's play anyway. If I know Witch is in the game and I intend to defend against it or prepare for it in some way, I'm going to do that regardless of whether or not someone buys one right away. Buying a moat or something to trash/imorove curses with after someone buys a witch is probably too late.
 
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Byron Leung
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Why not this then?
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/369371
Another quick start that require no extra tool or die.
Much fair-er and even determine the play order.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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theatog wrote:
Why not this then?
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/369371
Another quick start that require no extra tool or die.
Much fair-er and even determine the play order.


I continue to believe that these are solutions to a problem that does not exist.
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