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Race for the Galaxy: Rebel vs Imperium» Forums » General

Subject: Rules confusion rss

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suPUR DUEper
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Hey All,

Okay, maybe it's just me. Or maybe I tried reading the rules after working all day. But are the rules for RFTG (or in this case RvI) fairly difficult to digest?

I play wargames and have read the rules and understood games like Totaler Krieg, World in Flames, Paths of Glory, etc. I also find other heavies like War of the Ring, Traders of Genoa, Goa, etc. comprehensible. But for some reason RFTG and its expansions just do not go down very easy.

I am not sure if it is rules sequencing, layout, scarcity of examples, obscurity of the examples, style of writing or what. I have had this problem with only one other game- Agricola.

The weird thing is, both RFTG (RvI) and Agricola are very simple to play (and explain). But for some reason I find those rulebooks very poorly written.

Was wondering what the rest of the community thought....
 
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B C Z
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I learned from the rulebook.

I read the rulebook before purchasing the game as did my wife.
We used starting hands the first 4 games (each trying one of the starting hands once) and have been fine ever since.

It is one of the clearest and well written rulebooks I have had the fortune to read. It has, to my knowledge, no errata or corrections.
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Chris Rudram
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RvI took me a while to understand, and I've not had a chance to check if I do understand it. I think its because the overtaking rules only occur when one of 3-5 cards are actually played.
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It's possible to mess up easy things and hard things. Some people play horrible at simple games (not those completely relying on luck) while doing good at complex ones.


Case in point, I had a band instructor mention that it's possible for students to practice the hard parts so much that the easier parts can pose problems.
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Chris Long
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byronczimmer wrote:
It is one of the clearest and well written rulebooks I have had the fortune to read. It has, to my knowledge, no errata or corrections.


If you're talking about the base game, I have to strenuously disagree. It was one of the most confusing and poorly written ruleset I've ever read, and I come from a CCG background. They typically have the worst rules ever.

The main problem with RtfG's rules is that they make no distinction between example, exception, and actual rules. In each section, they discuss card exceptions as if they were part of the normal rules. It was so incredibly confusing at first, because I thought I was going to need to remember these specific card rules as part of the normal game.

I was over halfway through the book before I realized it was just specific card exceptions. If you're going to do something like that, you need to separate the exceptions and examples from the actual ruleset. RtfG doesn't do that. And unfortunately, something as relatively simple to get right as that can make the rulebook not worth talking about.
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Aron Fender
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I can agree it might seem hard to digest at first, however after you play through a few games and reread the rules - it seems to be that they are written well.
I remember sitting down w/ RFTG base game and my wife and I thought what the hell have we got ourselves into.
So glad that we stuck through it because RFTG and expansions is one of our favorite games.
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suPUR DUEper
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fender1499 wrote:
I can agree it might seem hard to digest at first, however after you play through a few games and reread the rules - it seems to be that they are written well.
I remember sitting down w/ RFTG base game and my wife and I thought what the hell have we got ourselves into.
So glad that we stuck through it because RFTG and expansions is one of our favorite games.


This closely parallels my experience. Frustrating at first but when you go back it seems clear enough (at least in the base game; haven't gotten there yet on the takeover rules....). Kinda like once you know how to speak a foreign language the introductory text books seem pretty simple. But the first time through.... not so much.
 
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zoran
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I like the rulebooks, they repay close study but yeah they are "different" to other rulebooks I've read. That the rules are precisely written but laid out in an informal or conversational way is the nearest I can put my finger on it.
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Sarah Allen
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I have real issues with the RftG rulebooks too. In fact, I couldn't make head nor tail of the base game when we got it - and couldn't play it until we had some San Juan playing friends round who took one look, said "It's San Juan in space!!" and explained it to us.

We got RvI last week and have so far not played with takeovers or the new objectives. All we've done is add the cards to the RftG + TGS deck and play the basic game to get a feel for the new cards. I've read the Takeovers rules summary post on here which did make sense so I think we'll work off that when we add them and just skim-read the actual rules to check we're not missing anything.

I struggled with the Agricola rules too. Must be something similar in their style which certain brain types can't cope with.
 
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A L D A R O N
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TedW wrote:
But for some reason RFTG and its expansions just do not go down very easy.

I can't speak to the rules for base game or first expansion (I haven't needed to refer to them since my first reading, which says something for how excellent the design of the game is), but the RvI rules are indeed a mess. The new rules are dead simple and take only a few sentences to explain completely, but he rules as written make things seem much more complicated and unstructured than they really are.
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suPUR DUEper
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sarah_elton wrote:


I struggled with the Agricola rules too. Must be something similar in their style which certain brain types can't cope with.


Highly advanced brain types, you mean....
 
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