Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
35 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Chit Chat

Subject: Help! I've forgotten my grammar rules! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Michael Barlow
Canada
Stratford
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No one takes the time to read anymore.
Avatar
mb
If I quote a sentence in its entirety, do I stick the quotes before or after the period?

"If I quote a sentence in its entirety, I stick the quotes before the period".

"If I quote a sentence in its entirety, I stick the quotes after the period."



If I note a reference to a rule number (from a rulebook) and end the sentence with it, do I add a period at the end of the sentence?

Movement is explained in more detail in 7.2.

Movement is explained in more detail in 7.2



Help! I cannot sleep tonight without the knowledge I seek!

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob
United States
30° 12′ 38″ N, 95° 45′ 2″ W
flag msg tools
badge
You can't rob Peter, Paul and Mary to pay yourself.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
These are correct.

Reprint wrote:
"If I quote a sentence in its entirety, I stick the quotes after the period."[/i]

Movement is explained in more detail in 7.2.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♪ Isaäc Bickërstaff ♫
United States
Greer
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Entropy Seminar:
badge
The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekund lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot.
Avatar
mb
Reprint wrote:
"If I quote a sentence in its entirety, I stick the quotes after the period."

thumbsup

Quote:
Movement is explained in more detail in 7.2.

thumbsup
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ludes
United States
Honor
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Reprint wrote:


"If I quote a sentence in its entirety, I stick the quotes after the period."[/i]



Definitely.

Quote:

If I note a reference to a rule number (from a rulebook) and end the sentence with it, do I add a period at the end of the sentence?

Movement is explained in more detail in 7.2.

Movement is explained in more detail in 7.2




I don't know that I've ever faced this dilemma. I would guess you'd want the period, but I'm no expert on these matters.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob
United States
30° 12′ 38″ N, 95° 45′ 2″ W
flag msg tools
badge
You can't rob Peter, Paul and Mary to pay yourself.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Or, if the second one still looks awkward, you could re-write it:

Rule 7.2 explains movement in more detail.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Barlow
Canada
Stratford
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No one takes the time to read anymore.
Avatar
mb
Sinister Dexter wrote:
Or, if the second one still looks awkward, you could re-write it:

Rule 7.2 explains movement in more detail.
I've never cared for this.
I wouldn't "feel comfortable" sticking it in the middle of the sentence.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
SAKURA in KYOTO 2018 Back to Kansai
England
York
North Yorkshire
flag msg tools
admin
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Naturally, all the Americans get it wrong.

The correct answer is:

Quote:
"If I quote a sentence in its entirety, I stick the quotes before the period.".


The sentence you are quoting is a complete sentence, and so has its own full stop. That is part of the quotation. The quotation marks form a new sentence, which then requires its own full stop.

Consider the effect of expanding the new sentence with some more text (yes, you expressly said you weren't doing that, but that's not the point). Without the full stop, the sentence would read:

Quote:
"If I quote a sentence in its entirety, I stick the quotes before the period.", he said


which is clearly wrong. It should be:

Quote:
"If I quote a sentence in its entirety, I stick the quotes before the period.", he said.


To answer your question, simply remove the
Quote:
, he said
and you'll see that the full stop pulls up after the quotation marks.

I thank you and remain,
you esteemed servant.

Jon.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Barlow
Canada
Stratford
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No one takes the time to read anymore.
Avatar
mb
Well, I don't agree with that at all.

In that case, I believe it should be one of these:


"If I quote a sentence in its entirety, I stick the quotes before the period", he said.

"If I quote a sentence in its entirety, I stick the quotes before the period," he said.



But again, I can't recall. Even university was ...20 years ago.



Say, there's another question:

Even university was... 20 years ago. I think this is right, but then...

OR

Even university was ...20 years ago. I don't think this is ...unless I add something else to the sentence.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amy Wiles
United States
Macon
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Here's the deal. In American English, a period, comma, semicolon, colon, exclamation point, question mark, or interobang go inside the quotation marks NO MATTER WHAT. Yes, it's stupid and can make the reader confused at times.

In English in the rest of the world, it depends on the context. In your case, I would say it would go inside because the period is in the original quote.



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♪ Isaäc Bickërstaff ♫
United States
Greer
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Entropy Seminar:
badge
The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekund lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot.
Avatar
mb
Quote:
Reprint wrote:
Rule 7.2 explains movement in more detail.

I've never cared for this.
I wouldn't "feel comfortable" sticking it in the middle of the sentence.
[/q]
Interestingly, writing the sentence this way changes the voice from passive ("is explained" means that the subject, "movement," is being acted upon) to active (now the subject is "Rule 7.2," and it's doing something through "explains"). Most grammarians prefer active voice over passive.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amy Wiles
United States
Macon
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Reprint wrote:
Say, there's another question:

Even university was... 20 years ago. I think this is right, but then...

OR

Even university was ...20 years ago. I don't think this is ...unless I add something else to the sentence.


I believe you don't want the ellipses touching either side.

Even university was ... 20 years ago.


See:
http://www.kentlaw.edu/academics/lrw/grinker/LwtaEllipses.ht...

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amy Wiles
United States
Macon
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Verkisto wrote:
Reprint wrote:
Sinister Dexter wrote:
Rule 7.2 explains movement in more detail.

I've never cared for this.
I wouldn't "feel comfortable" sticking it in the middle of the sentence.

Interestingly, writing the sentence this way changes the voice from passive ("is explained" means that the subject, "movement," is being acted upon) to active (now the subject is "Rule 7.2," and it's doing something through "explains"). Most grammarians prefer active voice over passive.

Passive vs active voice depends on what you're writing. In scientific writing, passive voice is almost always preferred.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♪ Isaäc Bickërstaff ♫
United States
Greer
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Entropy Seminar:
badge
The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekund lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot.
Avatar
mb
amwiles wrote:
Even university was ... 20 years ago.

This is how I've always done it, but it's trickier when it's at the end of a sentence. I typically ... put ellipses between spaces in the middle of a sentence, but at the end, I need to add the period, too. It looks weird to put a space at either end of the ellipses, then place a period, but it looks even weirder to place one space at the front, and none at the back. So I just mush them all up together at the end of the sentence. Maybe I'm doin' it wrong....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
June King
United States
Unspecified
flag msg tools
badge
Bring me her heart in this box.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm a copy editor, and Amy's answers are correct for American grammar rules in general.

However, the original poster is a Canadian and is probably using British rules. In which case, I don't want to wade in. shake
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
That is not Depeche but rather
United States
Grandville
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
amwiles wrote:

Here's the deal. In American English, a period, comma, semicolon, colon, exclamation point, question mark, or interobang go inside the quotation marks NO MATTER WHAT. Yes, it's stupid and can make the reader confused at times.

That's not at all how I learned it.

Commas and periods always go inside the quotes.

Colons and semi-colons always go outside the quotes.

Question marks and exclamation points depend on whether or not the punctuation belongs to the quoted text.

For example: Can you believe Amy said, "In American English, a period, comma, semicolon, colon, exclamation point, question mark, or interobang go inside the quotation marks NO MATTER WHAT"?

Since the quoted text isn't a question, but my sentence as a whole is, it goes outside the quotes. You'll also note that the period from your quote is excluded since you don't double punctuate and the stronger punctuation wins.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♪ Isaäc Bickërstaff ♫
United States
Greer
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Entropy Seminar:
badge
The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekund lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot.
Avatar
mb
Progmode wrote:
Commas and periods always go inside the quotes.

Colons and semi-colons always go outside the quotes.

Question marks and exclamation points depend on whether or not the punctuation belongs to the quoted text.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that aspect of it, all of which is correct. Anyone who's written a paper in a parenthetical citation style probably has a better sense of this, since if you attribute a quote to someone in the text, like "NO MATTER WHAT" (Wiles, 13), all the punctuation comes after the citation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruno Abreu
Portugal
flag msg tools
MAISON ABREU: Lair of Abreu, you know, that guy below. Do not mistake this for other Maisons or Houses or even Abreus.
badge
I do look good on this chair, dont I?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What´s grammar?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Loveland
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Progmode wrote:
amwiles wrote:

Here's the deal. In American English, a period, comma, semicolon, colon, exclamation point, question mark, or interobang go inside the quotation marks NO MATTER WHAT. Yes, it's stupid and can make the reader confused at times.

In English in the rest of the world, it depends on the context. In your case, I would say it would go inside because the period is in the original quote.

That's not at all how I learned it.

Commas and periods always go inside the quotes.

Colons and semi-colons always go outside the quotes.

Question marks and exclamation points depend on whether or not the punctuation belongs to the quoted text.



Sorry Amy. Progmode's correct.

And yes, they do things differently in England, but that's why we fought the Revolutionary War, right? To get away from their tyrannical and crazy grammar and punctuation rules.


3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil Shepherd
United States
Arlington
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Be on your guard. There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.
Avatar
mb
Scott Firestone IV wrote:
And yes, they do things differently in England, but that's why we fought the Revolutionary War, right? To get away from their tyrannical and crazy grammar and punctuation rules.


HA!thumbsup, but don't forget about their crazy spellings. Colour? Do we really need the "u"? I think not, you wasteful Brits!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris B
United States
Oxford
Mississippi
flag msg tools
Hotty Toddy Rebels!
badge
Lets go Blues!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank goodness grammar isn't need for programming...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Amy Wiles
United States
Macon
Georgia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Scott Firestone IV wrote:
Progmode wrote:
amwiles wrote:

Here's the deal. In American English, a period, comma, semicolon, colon, exclamation point, question mark, or interobang go inside the quotation marks NO MATTER WHAT. Yes, it's stupid and can make the reader confused at times.

In English in the rest of the world, it depends on the context. In your case, I would say it would go inside because the period is in the original quote.

That's not at all how I learned it.

Commas and periods always go inside the quotes.

Colons and semi-colons always go outside the quotes.

Question marks and exclamation points depend on whether or not the punctuation belongs to the quoted text.



Sorry Amy. Progmode's correct.

And yes, they do things differently in England, but that's why we fought the Revolutionary War, right? To get away from their tyrannical and crazy grammar and punctuation rules.




Quote:
* Contents of quotations: Americans always place commas and periods inside quotation marks. Exceptions are made only for parenthetical citation and cases in which the addition of a period or comma could create confusion, such as the quotation of a web address. Question marks and exclamation points however accord with British convention, and are placed inside if it belongs to the quotation and outside otherwise. With narration of direct speech, both styles retain punctuation inside the quotation marks, with a full stop changing into a comma if followed by explanatory text, also known as a dialogue tag.
o Carefree means "free from care or anxiety." (American style)
o Carefree means "free from care or anxiety". (British style)
o "Hello, world," I said. (Both styles)

The American style was established for typographical reasons, a historical legacy from the use of the handset printing press. It is used by most American newspapers, publishing houses, and style guides in the United States and Canada (including The Modern Language Association's MLA Style Manual, The American Psychological Association's APA Publication Manual, University of Chicago's Chicago Manual of Style, The American Institute of Physics's AIP Style Manual, The American Medical Association's AMA Manual of Style, The American Political Science Association's APSA Style Manual, the Associated Press' The AP Guide to Punctuation, and the Canadian Public Works' The Canadian Style).[57] It also makes the process of copy editing easier, eliminating the need to decide whether a period or comma belongs to the quotation.

Hart's Rules and the Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors call the British style "new" quoting. It is also similar to the use of quotation marks in many other languages (including Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian, Catalan, Dutch, and German). A few professional societies in the United States—which use various non-word characters, those affecting chemists and computer programmers—use the British form in their style guides (see ACS Style Guide). According to the Jargon File, American hackers have switched to using the British quotation system, because applying inside punctuation in a quotation can sometimes change the fundamental meaning of the quotation. More generally, it is difficult for computer manuals, online instructions, and other textual media to accurately quote exactly what a computer user should see or type on their computer if they follow American punctuation conventions.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Loveland
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Sooo...you're agreeing with me and Proggy? (I'm confused.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
That is not Depeche but rather
United States
Grandville
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Scott Firestone IV wrote:

Sooo...you're agreeing with me and ProggyProggy and I? (I'm confused.)

Flag on the play. This is a grammar thread, good sir.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aloha!
United States
Kalamazoo
Michigan
flag msg tools
Meega, nala kwishta!
badge
AAGH! YOU'RE TOUCHING ME!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here's my take on this:

As long as I can understand the intent and the basics of grammar are adhered to, I don't care. (By basics I mean basic sentence structure, use of real 'words' i.e. you instead of u, that kind of thing)

There are arguments to be made for either method, don't spend too much time thinking about it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott A. Reed
United States
Lawrence
Kansas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
Verkisto wrote:
amwiles wrote:
Even university was ... 20 years ago.

This is how I've always done it, but it's trickier when it's at the end of a sentence. I typically ... put ellipses between spaces in the middle of a sentence, but at the end, I need to add the period, too. It looks weird to put a space at either end of the ellipses, then place a period, but it looks even weirder to place one space at the front, and none at the back. So I just mush them all up together at the end of the sentence. Maybe I'm doin' it wrong....


I learned that in legal writing ellipses must also be spaced as if the represent the word ". . .". So . . . you must spread them out. Also, if you're using them in a quoted passage, you must also include the final period for the sentence. "Also, if you're using them in a quoted passage, . . .."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.