Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Race for the Galaxy: Rebel vs Imperium» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Cards I don't value, but should rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Gavin Cooper
England
London
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So I'm hooked. Played a lot of RftG last weekend, giving it its first proper play session, and I'm loving it a lot. I've also been voraciously reading about it, and wanted to talk a little with those who have a greater understanding of it than I do.

I had an epiphany the last time I played - Military's the first obvious strategy to new players, and it's what my friends (who were also new to the game) were pursuing. I wanted to show them the power of a Produce/Consumex2 strategy, and figure out for myself how to make it work after having heard of it here (this was with the base game + TGS). As a result, I was looking for cards containing consume for VP powers. As a result, I largely ignored consume for cards powers, preferring to hold onto anything that gave me a greater than 1:1 ratio of goods to points.

I realised at the end that this had really stunted my game, and next time I played I went Military, leeching off my opponent's Consume to draw lots of cards, which I ten spent on settling/developing. The game opened up a little for me then There were a whole range of cards with consume for cards powers that I'd previously treated as default money, no reason I could see to play them - now there were a lot more interesting choices to make.

But I think there's still more epiphanies to have. There are still a lot of powers that I don't value - and I *know* this is because I simply haven't figured out how to apply them well. So I'm asking you folks - what cards do you see as nothing more than discard for cash, that you think might be a lot more useful than you give them credit for?

To kick it off, the remaining big block of powers that I heavily deprioritise are the Trade powers. You can only trade one good a turn (unless you have Black Market World or the 6-Dev that also allows you to trade as a consume power), you have to pick the phase yourself and you need quite a few +cards for trade powers to get enough cash on a turn by turn basis to be hitting the really big worlds that a military player is slapping down for free each turn. Is a heavy trade strategy viable? Can you pump the trade of a good from one production world into a full hand of cards each turn, relying on other people's produce phases to keep it ticking over while you develop/settle? Should I be paying more attention to these powers, or do they fall into the "nice to have for an extra card every now and then" category?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wei-Hwa Huang
United States
San Jose
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kithkill wrote:

To kick it off, the remaining big block of powers that I heavily deprioritise are the Trade powers. You can only trade one good a turn (unless you have Black Market World or the 6-Dev that also allows you to trade as a consume power), you have to pick the phase yourself and you need quite a few +cards for trade powers to get enough cash on a turn by turn basis to be hitting the really big worlds that a military player is slapping down for free each turn. Is a heavy trade strategy viable? Can you pump the trade of a good from one production world into a full hand of cards each turn, relying on other people's produce phases to keep it ticking over while you develop/settle? Should I be paying more attention to these powers, or do they fall into the "nice to have for an extra card every now and then" category?


Which is better?

(1) You have a hand of 6 cards. Draw 7 cards from the deck, put them into your hand. Discard any 3 cards at the end of the turn. Lose a good (potential 1VP).
(2) You have a hand of 6 cards. Draw 7 cards from the deck, choose any 1 to put into your hand, discard the other six. All other players get to draw 2 cards from the deck and keep one.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trade strategy is indeed viable. I forget which post, but there was one in the base Race for the Galaxy forum that talked about 4 main types of strategy (Develop, Military, Trade, Consume/Produce). I've used it a few times.

I was taught RftG by being told it was similar to Puerto Rico, and Puerto Rico valued trades a lot in the early game, so I never had that problem.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jordan Booth
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"Can you pump the trade of a good from one production world into a full hand of cards each turn?"

Yes, trade is definitely a viable strategy. Get a green or yellow and a few trade powers and you'll always have a full hand. Even better there are now three separate cards that let you discard 2 cards for VPs and one that gives 1 for 1. If you get all of those you'll need one of the cards you mentioned that lets you consume for cards. You can also make out quite well getting 2 military in order to conquer the uplift windfalls. Then snag a genetics lab and the Clandestine Pirates(gives +x cards for each uplift) and maybe some of those brown worlds with green trade bonuses. The great thing about windfalls is that you can sell the good the same turn you conquer it, and there are a fair amount of production bonus powers so it isn't that hard to keep a windfall producing.
I'll also mention Galactic Salon, goes well with everything.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
onigame wrote:

Which is better?

(1) You have a hand of 6 cards. Draw 7 cards from the deck, put them into your hand. Discard any 3 cards at the end of the turn. Lose a good (potential 1VP). All other players are allowed/forced to consume any goods they have for victory points.
(2) You have a hand of 6 cards. Draw 7 cards from the deck, choose any 1 to put into your hand, discard the other six. All other players get to draw 2 cards from the deck and keep one.


I added the side effect of the trade in red above, because it's unfair to compare these two without also judging the side effects of both.

The answer depends on what those six cards in hand are, and if I want to be able to play something on phases II or III if one of my opponents plays such a phase.

Almost every time, I'd prefer #1 (the trade) because there's a significant chance I will not have to discard those three cards. If I need capital RIGHT NOW, then I wouldn't be Explore/+5'ing anyway, I'd have chosen Explore/+1+1.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
B C Z
United States
Reston
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In truth, I'd recommend hitting the base game's strategy section and reading up on some of the very excellent articles there on basic strategies - they still very much hold with Gathering Storm and RvI added into the mix, though the balance of certain 'mega strategies' has shifted.
2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Montero
United States
St Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
I'll take Manhattan in a garbage bag. With Latin written on it that says "It's hard to give a shit these days"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It trading didn't provide good value, then alien and genes worlds would be priced very differently than they are today.

Being able to trade 1 good every couple of turns for 5+ cards is pretty good value, especially when other players are the ones doing the producing for you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Serge Levert
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kithkill wrote:
what cards do you see as nothing more than discard for cash, that you think might be a lot more useful than you give them credit for?


Every single card in the game has a purpose other than cash in the right circumstances.

zeroth hour wrote:
I forget which post, but there was one in the base Race for the Galaxy forum that talked about 4 main types of strategy (Develop, Military, Trade, Consume/Produce).


Base game -> strategy forums, it stands out with an impressive 200 thumbs!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Jome
United States
Franklin
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
Kithkill... this game is trading.

Trades are everything to a well played game. When you trade, you are drawing bulk cards. That is winning two ways - gives you more options to get or stay ahead and gives you more ways to pay for those options.

Drawing cards is the essence of doing well at the game. Draw more cards, win more often. And nothing in the game draws cards like trading.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Not 100% true, but true in the majority of cases. I've won games with nothing but the draw cards powers in phase 2 (with Galactic Developers in this expansion it's easier to achieve) and phase 5 (Rebel Cantina is actually quite juicy in this regard, and the produce + draw powers).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Serge Levert
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cosine wrote:
this game is trading.


To give an idea of the pure power of trading, i'm about to win a game where i lived the dream: i traded the first 7 turns in a row. 100% leech rate - 8/8 devs/sets that were called by my opponents. I could have traded T9+T10 but preferred to force game end while i was guaranteed the win (going after the mostdevs goal and filling tableau). I got 48 pts and my 3 opponents got a combined 63. I had 12 tableau cards and they had 23 between them.

1 Chosen Actions: Explore[bae0wolf,MrWeasely]->Settle[vgk]->Trade[entranced]
2 Chosen Actions: Explore[MrWeasely]->Settle[vgk]->Trade[entranced]->Produce[bae0wolf]
3 Chosen Actions: Settle[vgk]->Trade[bae0wolf,entranced,MrWeasely]
4 Chosen Actions: Develop[bae0wolf]->Settle[vgk]->Trade[entranced]->Produce[MrWeasely]
5 Chosen Actions: Explore[bae0wolf]->Trade[entranced,MrWeasely,vgk]
6 Chosen Actions: Develop[bae0wolf]->Settle[vgk]->Trade[entranced]->Produce[MrWeasely]
7 Chosen Actions: Trade[bae0wolf,entranced,MrWeasely,vgk]
8 Chosen Actions: Develop[entranced,MrWeasely]->Settle[bae0wolf,vgk]
9 Chosen Actions: Develop[entranced]->Trade[bae0wolf,vgk]->Produce[MrWeasely]
10 Chosen Actions: Develop[entranced,vgk]->Trade[MrWeasely]->Consume[bae0wolf]
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gavin Cooper
England
London
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Apologies - I wasn't questioning the Trade phase (generally, more cards = good, definitely). It's more a question like: If I have two cards in my hand, one gets me one more card on a trade and one contributes to military or to a Consume/Produce engine, in which circumstances is the Trade power a better bet?

I guess I was kind of asking whether Trade could be pursued as a direct route to VP. For example, you can Consumex2/Produce and quickly deplete the chips, ending the game and likely winning. You can do that without having played a single Trade power. I was wondering whether focusing on a series of interlocking Trade powers could contribute towards winning without having to play much in the way of traditional consumption powers.

Now I've had a chance to play a few more games, I'm not sure you can (not without being pretty lucky). There are cards that allow you to discard surplus cards for VPs, but they can't be doubled (so they're a little slower), and the number of cards that allow you to do this is pretty small. Something that's maybe fun to play with if you get a good shot at it, but unlikely to come up often.

That said, this conversation has fuelled my games since recently discovering the Genie server, which has allowed me to experiment more with some tactics. I've tended to find that if I'm aiming for a Consumex2/Produce strategy, I usually aim to have my cards coming from something other than trade (as I don't want to call that phase once my engine is running). But a military game where I'm leeching Settles to put down windfall worlds definitely benefits from a few of those +card Trade powers. So although I wasn't quite ignoring Trade before, I'm definitely getting a grasp on how (and when!) to use Trade powers to beef Trades up...

Thanks for the replies folks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Serge Levert
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kithkill wrote:
I guess I was kind of asking whether Trade could be pursued as a direct route to VP.


Oh absolutely, a pure Trade strategy like you are talking about is viable. The trade strategy foundation is Trade League or Merchant World. From there, you want to combo with any of Deficit Spending, TL/MW, Galactic Bankers, and trade powers on worlds (to draw even more cards). Always play the highest point cards you get your hands on (hi Terraformed World!), like Contact Specialist into big Rebel worlds. The main secret to success is to keep consume goods powers to a minimum (until late game anyway), so that you can trade several times for each produce.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gavin Cooper
England
London
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
entranced wrote:
Always play the highest point cards you get your hands on (hi Terraformed World!), like Contact Specialist into big Rebel worlds.


Aha! Now that's the bit that was likely eluding me. Hadn't considered that the big military worlds could be paid for, in the right circumstances! I got hooked up on the cards->VP chips powers, and kinda stopped thinking there. You're absolutely right, with cards coming through in bulk, buying an Rebel Stronghold or similar is definitely do-able.

entranced wrote:
The main secret to success is to keep consume goods powers to a minimum (until late game anyway), so that you can trade several times for each produce.


Sneaky. I likes it Excellent reply - thank you!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Serge Levert
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kithkill wrote:
Hadn't considered that the big military worlds could be paid for, in the right circumstances!


TeW/CSp->RH are kind of esoteric, the more typical is big alien civilian worlds.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Buz
United States
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Merchant world is key to these trade-heavy strategies. I wouldn't consider developing Export Duties or other light buffs to trade in absence of one of the discard-for-VPs cards like MW or deficit spending.

Particularly in a four-player game, if you can leech produce to fill an alien or genes world, you may be able to trade every time. Rely on others to call Dev/Settle for you and fill your hand each time. Use Deficit Spending or Merchant World to discard down at the end of each hand. Yeah, the points can't be doubled but you can usually afford most of the 6-devs that cross your path as well as big civilian worlds. Contact Specialist is nice to have as well.

In a perfect world, perhaps Damaged Alien Factory to start with Merchant World and Deficit Spending in your starting hand. Develop other trade powers as they come.

Generally speaking, I don't focus on increasing my rate of trade unless I'm going for Big Trade type strategies. If the stars align, however, you can be close to unstoppable.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.