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Subject: Common Sense Princples for Health Care Reform rss

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David desJardins
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Uwe Reinhardt has a good list of some of the "common sense" principles that health care reform should satisfy. Should we adopt these principles, in order to bring conservatives on board?

The All-American Wish List for Health Reform
1. Only patients and their own doctors should decide what clinical response is appropriate for a given medical condition, even if that response involves unproven clinical procedures or technology.
2. Neither government bureaucrats nor private insurance bureaucrats should ever refuse to pay for whatever patients and their doctors have decided to do in response to a given medical condition. An insurer’s refusal to pay for a medical procedure is tantamount to rationing health care.
3. Rationing health care is un-American.
4. Cost-effectiveness analysis should never be the basis of any coverage decision by public or private third-party payers in health care, for to do so would put a price on human life — which, in America, unlike everywhere else, is priceless.
5. Government should not require individuals to purchase health insurance. Such a mandate would violate the constitutional rights of freedom-loving Americans.
6. Americans have a moral right to life-saving and potentially highly expensive medical care, should they fall critically ill, even if they are uninsured and could not possibly pay for that care with their own financial resources. (Why else would God have created hospitals and their emergency rooms?)
7. Government should stay out of health care. Specifically, government should not control health care prices, nor should it increase its spending on health care, which is out of control.
8. Even small reductions to the future growth of Medicare spending — called “cuts” in Washington parlance — unfairly burden the elderly, along with the doctors and hospitals that serve them and the manufacturers of health products, lest the pace of technical innovation be impaired.
 
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Good on ya David... you've adapted the transparency that Obama promised but failed to deliver.

Thanks!

Oh, and I could design such a plan as the author mockingly says can't be done. But it'd piss off every lobbyist, politician, vampire lawyer, bottom-feeding insurance company and arrogant liberal in America. And you guys ain't about to let your death grip on "what's right" go.
 
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David desJardins
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DWTripp wrote:
Oh, and I could design such a plan as the author mockingly says can't be done.


You can devise a plan that guarantees every American any healthcare treatment they can think of, no matter how expensive, and regardless of efficacy?

I don't think so.
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I see you...
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Uwe's list is silly.

#3 is a nonsensical statement which does nothing more than try to create an emotional response and provides no definition of "rationing" and "Unamerican". #2 is a mistake at best, a lie at worst. Private Health Insurance not paying for a treatment isn't rationing.

Quote:
Rationing is the controlled distribution of resources and scarce goods or services. Rationing controls the size of the ration, one's allotted portion of the resources being distributed on a particular day or at a particular time


Private Health Insurance not paying for a treatment/service doesn't prevent the payor from receiving the treatment/service. The payor can still get that treatment/service. Completely silly nonsense. #1 only works when you, the payor, decides to not bring in anyone else. Once you get a health insurance plan, you've decided to bring in a third party. Another completely silly statement by Uwe.


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Jorge Montero
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I'll take Manhattan in a garbage bag. With Latin written on it that says "It's hard to give a shit these days"
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If that came into effect, I'd work hard to become a doctor. There's plenty of money to be made by letting people abuse a free for all, no-guideline healthcare system. Yes Ms Watson, I agree that the only way to cure your migraines is with cosmetic surgery.Mr Tripp, I think we can cure your paranoia with a weekly bottle of 50 year old scotch, paid in full by your insurance.
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True Blue Jon
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I want to see Tripp's plan!
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Snowball
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Drew1365 wrote:

The weird thing is the implication that Common Sense = Conservative.

Not weird. Satirical.
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David desJardins
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Drew1365 wrote:
I thought I detected mockery in that list.


Dispaminite wrote:
Uwe's list is silly.


You two are sharp as tacks. Nothing gets by you, huh?
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quozl wrote:
I want to see Tripp's plan!


First I'd strip all the mockery from the idiotic article David quoted and boil the health care "issue" down to it's component parts. Then I'd separate those out and redraft what the government can and cannot regulate... based almost entirely on having oversight that is designed strictly to protect both the insured and the teams who provide health care.

I'd toss out all the scum lawyers by changing the tort laws in the USA to something not insane... you may know what I mean.

I'd clear insurance companies to do business across state lines.

I'd draft and impose a draconian and heartless set of penalties for anyone found guilty of insurance fraud... starting with the consumer at the base level of severity and culminating in mandatory sentences in federal prisons for executives who are found complicit. Those last, the execs, would be fined amounts calibrated to their incomes and industry-related wealth and they would never again be allowed to hold a job in anyway connected to the health industry.

The insurance lobbyists would end up either in jail, fleeing the country with half our lawyers or agreeing to start new careers as night shift asst manager at Jack-in-the-Box.

The federal government would approve and insure the clientele of all corps selling health insurance in a manner similar to the FDIC. The exchange would be a user fee paid quarterly to the fund with fee reductions based on the corporation's total make-up pf customers. Bonus points for seeking out and adding "marginal" Americans (in terms of income, region, health risks, etc.) to their roles and oversight of this list would be intense and scrutinized by secret committees randomly selected by lottery from non-health related businesses. Those members serving would be earning their normal pay plus a bonus tax credit for the firm they work for in the real world. These members would function like a Grand Jury... no names available and no out side contact with them from the insurance world.

I could go on and on and on as to what would work because no matter what the arrogant fuckwit who wrote the article, or the liberals like David think... this absolutely can be done and done well. There is no reason whatsoever that every American cannot get quality health care at a price that is affordable to them and that won't be stripped from them at the first sign of serious illness.

Anyone believing otherwise is a mere ideologue who cannot be trusted to act or perform in accord with any rules except those of partisan control-politics.
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David desJardins
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Drew1365 wrote:
So it appears that common sense is now something the elitists deride.


The "elitists" (those who use logic and facts) are up against the "commonsensicalists" (those who believe what they choose, since they can justify it as "common sense" no further facts or evidence are needed).

It so happens that there is a strong overlap between the commonsensicalists and the conservatives.

You can't use logic to fight the commonsensicalists, since they have already decided that logic isn't necessary or useful. But mockery seems like it might have some value.
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I see you...
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DaviddesJ wrote:
You two are sharp as tacks. Nothing gets by you, huh?


Thats what I thought.
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They don't mock "common sense", they mock people who use the term when the thing they're proposing is anything but "common sense".
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Lebanon
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Careful with your head, there's lots of glass chards falling right there.
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DWTripp wrote:

I'd draft and impose a draconian and heartless set of penalties for anyone found guilty of insurance fraud... starting with the consumer at the base level of severity and culminating in mandatory sentences in federal prisons for executives who are found complicit. Those last, the execs, would be fined amounts calibrated to their incomes and industry-related wealth and they would never again be allowed to hold a job in anyway connected to the health industry.

Wow. That's... a good idea!!
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David desJardins
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Drew1365 wrote:
So they -- and only they -- get to determine what counts as "common sense"? Neat how that works: "If it agrees with us, it's common sense. If it doesn't, it's not."


That sure sounds like ex-Governor Palin.

I don't know how Congress came into this. Their reasoning skills are usually not so good either.

Reinhardt is a good example of someone who uses logic and evidence, rather than "common sense", which has the advantage that you don't have to argue over what the latter might be.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
So they -- and only they -- get to determine what counts as "common sense"? Neat how that works: "If it agrees with us, it's common sense. If it doesn't, it's not."


That sure sounds like ex-Governor Palin.


A reply from the DdJ "Response-o-matic"!



Next up in the rotation is something about Fox News--every conservative's favorite network.
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