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Subject: Game Warping Card Idea: The Machicavell rss

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Devin Green

Colrain
Massachusetts
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My idea, which is in it's nascent stages to say the least, is as follows:

The Machiavell
Cost: 2
+1 Action
Draw one card for each card in your hand.
At the end of your turn unplayed cards are Trashed instead of discarded.

The rules make a clear distinction between played and unplayed cards. It seems to suggest that money is counted as played during the buy phase. Although that is not how I've played myself this is the first effect I'm aware of that would make that distinction relevant.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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Dominionton wrote:
My idea, which is in it's nascent stages to say the least, is as follows:

The Machiavell
Cost: 2
Draw one card for each card in your hand.
At the end of your turn unplayed cards are Trashed instead of discarded.

The rules make a clear distinction between played and unplayed cards. It seems to suggest that money is counted as played during the buy phase. Although that is not how I've played myself this is the first effect I'm aware of that would make that distinction relevant.


This card would be useful in the early game, because you would be able to cleanse your deck of Estates, but once you start buying Duchies and Provinces, it becomes radioactive. If you have them in your hand with this card, you'll not play the card; if you might draw them into your hand, you'll not play the card. Same thing if you have too many coins and insufficient buys later in the game -- if I draw cards up to, say, 11 coins, but I only have one buy, then one of my Golds is not going to be "played," and I get to trash it. Or if I draw more than one terminal action, one of them (or more than one, since this card's terminal as well) gets trashed.

I can't see any reason why I would want this card in my deck. I think any small benefit I get at the beginning of the game is more than offset by having it sitting as an unplayable lump in my deck once my initial estates are gone.
 
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Joseph
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Ankeny
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Golux13 wrote:
Dominionton wrote:
My idea, which is in it's nascent stages to say the least, is as follows:

The Machiavell
Cost: 2
Draw one card for each card in your hand.
At the end of your turn unplayed cards are Trashed instead of discarded.

The rules make a clear distinction between played and unplayed cards. It seems to suggest that money is counted as played during the buy phase. Although that is not how I've played myself this is the first effect I'm aware of that would make that distinction relevant.


This card would be useful in the early game, because you would be able to cleanse your deck of Estates, but once you start buying Duchies and Provinces, it becomes radioactive. If you have them in your hand with this card, you'll not play the card; if you might draw them into your hand, you'll not play the card. Same thing if you have too many coins and insufficient buys later in the game -- if I draw cards up to, say, 11 coins, but I only have one buy, then one of my Golds is not going to be "played," and I get to trash it. Or if I draw more than one terminal action, one of them (or more than one, since this card's terminal as well) gets trashed.

I can't see any reason why I would want this card in my deck. I think any small benefit I get at the beginning of the game is more than offset by having it sitting as an unplayable lump in my deck once my initial estates are gone.


Great Idea!

As for the late game, don't play the card!

You don't have to play all the cards in your hand, Remodel, Upgrade, Chapel, or whatever later.

Or use it as a very risky Cellar/Chapel.
 
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Devin Green

Colrain
Massachusetts
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By terminal action do you mean action cards that don't provide extra actions?

If so then I will point out that it does give you an extra action.

I agree that you would need a very specific set of cards to make things work but with some villages (or their brethren) you could play actions out of your hand.

As I think about it, in order for that to work you would need the right cards to the point that you might as well run with another, less risky strategy.

Here is a revamp:

The Machiavell
Cost: 2
+3 Actions
+1 Buy
Draw one card for each card in your hand.
At the end of your turn unplayed cards are Trashed instead of discarded.

Now it functions as a sort of auto-combo. You play it, draw four cards and then use any actions that are sitting. You could play it after grabbing up all of your provinces with a Scout or with a Courtyard to place one of them back. You could Cellar through your victory cards and just risk action cards.
 
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Bill Barksdale
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Mountain View
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The first version of the card you posted is significantly better than Chapel. Example game:
Turn 1 (3): buy Machiavelli
Turn 2 (4): buy Smithy
Turn 3: 2 Copper, 2 Estate, Machiavelli. Play Machiavelli, drawing 3 Copper and Smithy. Play Smithy, drawing 2 Copper and Estate. Buy Gold, trashing 1 Copper and 3 Estate.

Your deck is now 6 Copper, 1 Gold, 1 Machiavelli, and 1 Smithy. From here you probably buy Gold for a few more turns, trashing excess Coppers with Machiavelli, then switch to Provinces. Probably you get three before anyone who didn't buy Machiavelli buys one.
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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Dominionton wrote:
By terminal action do you mean action cards that don't provide extra actions?

If so then I will point out that it does give you an extra action.

I agree that you would need a very specific set of cards to make things work but with some villages (or their brethren) you could play actions out of your hand.

As I think about it, in order for that to work you would need the right cards to the point that you might as well run with another, less risky strategy.

Here is a revamp:

The Machiavell
Cost: 2
+3 Actions
+1 Buy
Draw one card for each card in your hand.
At the end of your turn unplayed cards are Trashed instead of discarded.

Now it functions as a sort of auto-combo. You play it, draw four cards and then use any actions that are sitting. You could play it after grabbing up all of your provinces with a Scout or with a Courtyard to place one of them back. You could Cellar through your victory cards and just risk action cards.


Was the +1 action part of the original? I must have missed that. It makes the card less of a dead weight, but I still think it's too risky to use once you get multiple kingdom and VP cards into your hand.
 
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Byron Leung
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Vancouver
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Dominionton wrote:
By terminal action do you mean action cards that don't provide extra actions?

If so then I will point out that it does give you an extra action.

I agree that you would need a very specific set of cards to make things work but with some villages (or their brethren) you could play actions out of your hand.

As I think about it, in order for that to work you would need the right cards to the point that you might as well run with another, less risky strategy.

Here is a revamp:

The Machiavell
Cost: 2
+3 Actions
+1 Buy
Draw one card for each card in your hand.
At the end of your turn unplayed cards are Trashed instead of discarded.

Now it functions as a sort of auto-combo. You play it, draw four cards and then use any actions that are sitting. You could play it after grabbing up all of your provinces with a Scout or with a Courtyard to place one of them back. You could Cellar through your victory cards and just risk action cards.

LOL. Why not
Machiavell
Cost:0
+5 Actions
+5 Coins
Draw one card for each card in your hand.
At the end of turn, trash your hand.

The original version completely obsolete both Cellar and Chapel at cost 2, why make it even stronger?

I would really suggest to increase the cost by at least 1 or even 2. And remove the +action to increase the risk of using it. (Great power comes with great cost)

Anyway, great job coming up with innovative machanics (The hand trashing part) ! I am all about new machanics :)

Just keep in mind: Most volunteered trashing are a good thing, not drawbacks.

Love your card. just need a few tweaks for balance here and there.
 
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Jeff Wolfe
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Columbus
Ohio
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Golux13 wrote:
Same thing if you have too many coins and insufficient buys later in the game -- if I draw cards up to, say, 11 coins, but I only have one buy, then one of my Golds is not going to be "played," and I get to trash it.


You may play as many Treasure cards as you want during your Buy phase, even if you don't use the resulting Coins. You don't have to play excess Treasure (such as if you want to keep a player with a Thief guessing as to whether you have that Gold left in your deck), but you may.

Edit to add:

That makes Harem more powerful in combination with this card.
 
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Craig Waterman
United States
Rindge
New Hampshire
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I would really suggest to increase the cost by at least 1 or even 2. And remove the +action to increase the risk of using it. (Great power comes with great cost)
.[/q]

I would agree, because then it becomes powerful with combo, but it is really quite powerful at a cost of 4. because imagine a deck of villages, woodcutters and Machicavells.

 
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Devin Green

Colrain
Massachusetts
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After witnessing the power of the card as it stands, that power being to make a deck entirely out of money, I have decided to drop the extra actions and extra buys. This, is, in a nutshell a Chapel that works faster and becomes more dangerous as the game progresses.

It doesn't produce the perfect deck by its self but it can be frighteningly efficient.

Final composition:

The Machiavell
Cost: 4
+1 action
Draw a card for each card in your hand. At the end of your turn trash your hand instead of discarding it.

Will look into this, initial guesses say it will still become too risky after the second turn but it can still prime your deck like a tortoise in heat.
 
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