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Subject: "[Goodley] must characters be closer after whistle blow?" rss

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Green Bird
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In FAQ, it states "also keep in mind that, when using Goodley's special ability, a character cannot be kept at the same distance with the first movement point, then moved back to its initial hex, and then moved closer to Goodley".

Is it legal to move a character closer to Goodley as the first move, then back to the initial hex, and then moving closer (end up with the same hex as first move)?
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Glenn Ironhat
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
I believe that they put that in to emphasize that each move the character makes has to be closer to Goodley, if possible. And that moves cannot be wasted.

Each move must be closer. Not the same distance away. Again, if possible.
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Cindy Nowak
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
gironha wrote:
I believe that they put that in to emphasize that each move the character makes has to be closer to Goodley, if possible. And that moves cannot be wasted.

Each move must be closer. Not the same distance away. Again, if possible.


Exactly. If you ever have the opportunity to play the game online, you will find that if you attempt a move that is at the same distance - or further away - you will receive a message that it is not possible to move the character to that space, you must move closer.
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Thanks
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Grävling (badger)
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Apologies if adding to a 2 year old thread is not what is done here, and also if this question has been asked in another forum and I have just missed it. I have recently purchased Mr. Jack. We interpreted the
rules for Goodley's whistle-blowing ability to indicate that only the last square matters. Thus Goodley can move a charcter that stands 2 hexes away from himself to the square he is in and through to the other side, so long as that character ends up a shorter distance (in this case 1 square) from Goodley. Also, when Goodley pulls a character to the exact same square as Goodley he can accuse that character of being Jack.

So, for instance, say that Goodley is sitting on the square he originally starts on. And Gull is sitting 2 squares south of Goodley. Goodley can then blow and make Gull move 1 (to the manhole just southt of Goodley) 2 (to the square occupied by Goodley, at which point Goodley can accuse Gull), and then 3 (assuming no accusation was made, to the square just north of Goodley.

Reading this thread leads me to believe that our interpretation was incorrect, and that this sort of movement would be disallowed, while reading http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1663868#1663868 reinforces (at least to me) the idea that our interpretation was correct. It, however, leads me to wonder if a Goodley accusation made by pulling the suspect you wish to accuse onto the square occupied by Goodley using the whistle is legal?

Could somebody who knows for sure -- or how the online game works -- post a clarification, please?

Thank you very much in advance.
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Ax Bits
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
The second part (about the accusation) seems needless. If Goodley and the accusee can reach the same space using Goodley's whistle and Goodley's walk, then just do the whistle first and walk the last step(s).
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Grävling (badger)
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
You may need to pop Goodley through a manhole to a different location on the board before you start moving the suspect that you intend to accuse towards you. In that case you will need to take all of Goodley's move first, before you start blowing. Can you then still accuse?
 
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Bah, I'm bad with the sewers.
I'd say "no" because in the FAQ of the rule book is says:

Rule Book wrote:
Is it possible to use Goodley’s special ability to bring Jack’s token on another character and then accuse him?
No!! To accuse a character, the investigator must move over Jack’s hex, and not the opposite.
Using Goodley’s whistle to bring the suspect closer is allowed, and it can then allow a character to accuse him after that.


On the same token, the investigator can not take control of the Jack character and move him into a space with another character for an accusation.
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Volker Hirscher
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Sorry, once again I am reactivating this thread, just for the sake of maybe having a final answer

Is it officially clarified if it is allowed to keep a character that is moved because of Goodley's ability at the same distance while moving (as long as the carachter ends his move closer to Goodley? Or does each step have to bring the moved character closer to Goodley? If this last option is correct, this will make Goodley not usable in case the moved character MUST stay in the same distance, maybe because he has to go around a lantern or so.
 
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Dean Adam
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
mavo wrote:
Sorry, once again I am reactivating this thread, just for the sake of maybe having a final answer

Is it officially clarified if it is allowed to keep a character that is moved because of Goodley's ability at the same distance while moving (as long as the carachter ends his move closer to Goodley? Or does each step have to bring the moved character closer to Goodley? If this last option is correct, this will make Goodley not usable in case the moved character MUST stay in the same distance, maybe because he has to go around a lantern or so.


I reckon if Sgt Goodly knew about all the arguments by rule lawyers about the legality of his moves he'd throw his whistle down the sewer and quit the force.

I'm not going to quote since I'm in bed on my iPod, but I'm pretty sure that the rules state that moves towards Goodly have to reduce the number of movements points to reach him (Goodly). Obviously obstacles have to be navigated around, but doing the sideways shuffle without reducing the movement points meets the 'can't waste the movement points' rule discussed in the FAQ. There is also the 'can't move through the same hex in the same turn' rule.

So essentially you need to work out the shortest route to goodly and move 1-3 hexes along that route depending how many of the 3 movement points you've allocated to the character in question. This nullifies the sideways 'no move' movement. Sideways movements forced by obstacles are closer in the number of movement points.

I believe that this has a conceptual/thematic sense too...if you hear a police whistle/cry for help, if you were going to run towards it to assist, you'd go the shortest route. Not via timbucktoo!

There is one point in the FAQ that does confuse me around the whistle blowing, but I'll post in the FAQ when I can quote a bit easier.

The requirement to move is what balances goodly, if you could just pick an choose it'd become too skewed. This way you have to consider his position relative to the others, whether to move before or after the whistle, 1 or 3 characters to move. He's one of the more consistently useful characters, but also one of the most complex.
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Volker Hirscher
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Strange enough, the online game allows side moves...
 
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Here's my attempt:

A legal whistle move is one in which the character ends up closer to Goodley, and could could not end up closer still by expending the same number of moves differently.

I think that should match the online implementation, and resolve the various misunderstandings (famous last words).
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Dean Adam
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Sphere wrote:
Here's my attempt:

A legal whistle move is one in which the character ends up closer to Goodley, and could could not end up closer still by expending the same number of moves differently.

I think that should match the online implementation, and resolve the various misunderstandings (famous last words).


hmmm seems a nice succinct way of putting it.
 
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Volker Hirscher
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Quote:
A legal whistle move is one in which the character ends up closer to Goodley, and could could not end up closer still by expending the same number of moves differently.


Actually, I do not think that it matches the online implementation. There, it is ok to go "sideways" if you just end closer to Goodley than before. I will give it another try:

"
1) You have to end your move closer to Goodley than you were before (shortest path counts)
2) You have to take the shortest path from start hex to destination hex
"

While rule 1 is clear, rule 2 is important for the online game. What do you think?
 
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Stefan Esch
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
A legal whistle move is one in which the character ends up closer to Goodley than he was before.
That's the rule.

So you must
1. calculate the shortest distance from the characters's starting hex to Goodley's location ("start distance")
2. calculate the shortest distance from the character's destination hex to Goodley's location ("end distance")

If
end distance < start distance
then it is a valid move (the character is "closer to Goodly" now) -
provided that he could move so many steps:

To count them, you must calculate the shortest path from the character's start to his destination space.

This is the "official" rule, and the online game is implemented this way.

Stefan
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Stefan Esch
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Yes, J.C., those are valid moves, BUT there can be other valid moves, because Volker is right:
"it is ok to go "sideways" if you just end closer to Goodley than before".

One additional note: the character in question must not cross Goodley's space!
And he may use only "normal" movement (no sewers, Stealthy may not use her special ability etc.)

(spelling edited)
 
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Stefan Esch
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Sounds good :-)
 
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Seems like people are getting caught on the distinction between closer as the crow flies versus closer in movement points i.e. how many moves would the character need to reach the same tile as goodly.

If you've worked out the shortest route (least number of movement points necessary) and moved along it - then I don't really understand the problems?

Or am I missing something? I can't think of any sideways movements that meet this criteria that don't involve moving around an obstacle, and hence are reducing the number of movement points...?


moonglow wrote:

So essentially you need to work out the shortest route to goodly and move 1-3 hexes along that route depending how many of the 3 movement points you've allocated to the character in question. This nullifies the sideways 'no move' movement. Sideways movements forced by obstacles are closer in the number of movement points.
 
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
It's actually quite simple, even if the rules aren't very clearly stated. The character or characters being moved can travel any direction*, as long as the hex upon which they end their move(s) is closer by movement points (not counting sewers) to Goodley than the hex upon which they started.

[EDIT] *The only caveat is that you cannot "waste" movement points but taking a roundabout route to the character's destination hex. In other words, for the purpose of calculating the total number of movement points used by Goodley's whistle, you must count the number of hexes from the character's starting hex to its destination hex by the shortest possible route.
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Dean Adam
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
ummm is anyone actually disagreeing on this thread any more? or are we all just saying the same thing over and over to the millionth variation?

If this doesnt seem the case then don't hold back, I'd much rather someone said "no you're wrong because X", or "you've missed X which means people will do Y" than left me going, "umm what's your point, isnt that what the last 5 people just said?"


Quirion Kithkin wrote:
moonglow wrote:
Seems like people are getting caught on the distinction between closer as the crow flies versus closer in movement points i.e. how many moves would the character need to reach the same tile as goodly.

If you've worked out the shortest route (least number of movement points necessary) and moved along it - then I don't really understand the problems?

Or am I missing something? I can't think of any sideways movements that meet this criteria that don't involve moving around an obstacle, and hence are reducing the number of movement points...?


moonglow wrote:

So essentially you need to work out the shortest route to goodly and move 1-3 hexes along that route depending how many of the 3 movement points you've allocated to the character in question. This nullifies the sideways 'no move' movement. Sideways movements forced by obstacles are closer in the number of movement points.


The shortest route is only used to establish the distance between the hex which contains Goodley and the hex which contains the character before the character is moved. Once this distance is established, the character can be moved to any hex which results in a decrease in the distance.
 
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Volker Hirscher
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
moonglow is right - I think my statement above was correct (just clarified the shortest path statement in the following quote):

Quote:
1) You have to end your move closer (shortest path) to Goodley than you were before (also shortest path)
2) You have to take the shortest path from start hex to destination hex


Or does anyone disagree? If not, I would use that as an answer in another thread. While I like Stefan's mathematical approach (being an computer scientist), I think some people might prefer it the way I put it
 
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Volker Hirscher
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
Bruno clarified it: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/5825465#5825465

Glad that Goodley is now 100% clear...
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Re: Question about Goodley's move in FAQ
mavo wrote:
Bruno clarified it: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/5825465#5825465

Glad that Goodley is now 100% clear...


Bruno's clear wording of the rule can be seen just above my comment here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/5833481#5833481

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