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Subject: Color Match after an All Flip question rss

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Tim Shippert
United States
Richland
Washington
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Say four players are playing, and during an All Flip they turn up the following cards:

Player 1: green symbol A
Player 2: yellow symbol A
Player 3: green symbol B
Player 4: Color Match

Can Player 2 correctly grab the totem?

We had a rather extended discussion about a similar situation in our most recent game of this. At heart is section (d) under the rules for Arrow cards ("Special Situations Involving the Arrow Cards"), clause #2:

Another Arrow card appears at the same time as a duel between two players. The fastest player decides the outcome. Example: Pete, Ollie, Veronica, and Peggy Sue all turn over a card. An arrow card appears, as well as a duel between Pete and Ollie. Pete grabs the totem first. Petet decides whether the duel is finished, or if the arrow card will then take effect.

Some of us read that as saying whoever grabs the totem after an All Flip can decide whether any arrow cards take effect - thus, Player #2 could grab the totem, ruling that the symbol match "duel" between her and Player #1 takes precedence over the Color Match turned by player 5.

Others of us claimed that the Color Match invalidated the regular symbol match rules (under the Color Match description: WATCH OUT! Matching symbol duels are not permitted as long as the COLOR MATCH card is in play). Thus, there was no existing duel between Player 1 and Player 2, and thus the "at the same time as a duel" qualifier does not exists. Thus, only color matches are allowed, and player 2 could not correctly grab the totem.

The counter arguments to that are that the quoted rule explicitly gives the player who grabbed the token the right to decide if the color match card takes effect; if Player 2 chooses to say the color match card is "not in play", then the "WATCH OUT" rule doesn't happen and the symbol match remains valid.

To me, at least, it seems the rules can be reasonably read to support both arguments, depending upon the exact definition of duel and questions of timing.

But the problem with the argument for player #2 is that it's a weird rule that changes the way certain cards are played and doesn't seem to have any real reason for existing. The point of the Color Match is to turn off matching symbols and to turn on matching colors. With the pro-player #2 ruling, that is not longer the case - after an All Flip both symbol matches and Color Matches remain valid, depending on the whim of the totem grabber. That just seems counterintuitive to me.

The motivation for Clause #2 seems (to me) to be to give the grabber the right to decide which one applies if he has multiple reasons for grabbing the totem - for example, if both a Fast Grab and a Color Match are turned up simultaneously. But to have the All Flip essentially invalidate part of the Color Match rule seems out of place; logically, if one hadn't read the rules and was just trying to infer what should happen from the way the rest of the game is played, when a Color Match is turned up after an All Flip, then only color matches should be allowed, and symbol matches no longer matter. At least in my opinion.
 
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Laurence Parsons
United Kingdom
Bristol
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Old enough to know what's right
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For what it's worth, we've always played that as soon as a card comes into play, its rules are triggered.
Therefore in your example, when the 4 cards are flipped simultaneously, as soon as the Colour Match card is flipped, colour matching is turned on, and symbol matching is turned off. Player 2 has grabbed the totem in error, and pays the penalty.
We play:
Colour change happens first.
Match and All Grab happens second. If the Grabber has a match, he chooses what to do with his cards.
All Flip happens if none of the above.

Clearly, this is just our interpretation so don't set too much store by it.
 
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Stefan Brunell
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Bromont
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Others of us claimed that the Color Match invalidated the regular symbol match rules (under the Color Match description: WATCH OUT! Matching symbol duels are not permitted as long as the COLOR MATCH card is in play). Thus, there was no existing duel between Player 1 and Player 2, and thus the "at the same time as a duel" qualifier does not exists. Thus, only color matches are allowed, and player 2 could not correctly grab the totem.


They are right.
 
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Christopher DeFrisco
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Ashland
Oregon
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This is good stuff and will definitely come into play the next time this hits the table. We've always played it a bit loosey-goosey. Meaning, often the totem will be snatched by one of the color-matched pair, then after it is put back a person from the symbol matched pair will grab it again. Fortunately, every time I've played it has always been silly fun and there are never any real disputes.

But being able to say the color match trumps the symbol match works for me!
 
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