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Subject: Did we play this wrong? rss

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Marion Jensen
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I play with a group of BSG fans, and I've been looking forward to this game for some time. We finally got it to the table, and I was dissapointed. I'm hoping we misunderstood the rules.

We started the game with the Cylons on the board. By the second or third turn, we got one of the three cards that has you add even more cylons. There were cylons everywhere, and it was quite exciting. It was hard to keep ahead of them, but we finally were able to jump and leave them behind.

And they never found us again.

For the rest of the game it was just draw a card, throw out skill cards, advance. We never hit another one of the cards that brough Cylons out on the table, so we just slowly progressed.

When one of the players found out he was a cylon, he tried to stop us, but it was three against 1. With him only drawing two cards, and the rest of us drawing 5-6, there was nothing really he could do.

What did we miss?

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brian
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Sounds right. Cylons don't come bak on the board unless you have an attack card (or in very rare cases if you fail certain checks). But since these are cards, you get a random distribution of them which means some games you might get a bunch in a row or you may get a lot of turns with nothing. But if you never pull a card, then you might not have shuffled the deck thoroughly enough (FFG collates most of their decks so it is possible all of these were sitting on the bottom of the deck).

But beside this random variance, your Cylon needed to play better. It's not all about the attacks (just like the show isn't one constant battle) but the suspicion that is spread around. Your Cylon should have been sowing discord. Or he should have revealed and used his Super Crisis Card to do some damage to stall the humans while more Attack Cards came up.
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David Kahnt
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It's fun, it's healthy, it's good exercise. The kids will just love it. And we put a little sand inside to make the experience more pleasant.
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It seems the humans were lucky.

How many players were there?

I suppose a Cylon player with more experience can figure out what to do a bit more... perhaps not revealing as early as he did and mess with things a bit more.

-DK
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Mat Nowak
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Were you playing with the Sympathizer? You said it was 3 against 1, but by the sounds of it it seems like you were doing great resources-wise.. the sympathizer would have sided with that lone cylon evening things up a little bit.
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H-B-G
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Firemeboy wrote:
By the second or third turn, we got one of the three cards that has you add even more cylons.



Have you actually only got 3 Cylon attack cards? There should be 10.
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Marion Jensen
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It was the first time for all of us, so there are probably things the Cylon player could have done differently, but they weren't evident to any of us at the time.

He did not know he was the Cylon until we'd hit 4 destination. He immediately revealed himself and dropped the super crisis. I forget what it was, but it didn't seem to stop the human march to victory.

Our resources were doing great mid-game, but one had fallen into the red, so the sympathizer went to the brig, and we popped him right out again.

About 2 rounds into the game, I reshuffled the deck, thinking that the Cylon cards might be grouped together. But we never got the other two cards.

Well, we'll give it another shot, and see if the game improves. I think part of the problem was that since we were all playing it new, there was a sense of confusion, had to check the rules every time, and it went until 3:00 in the morning. Maybe if we can get the speed up a bit more, and the luck changes, it will play a bit better. With Pandemic it feels like you're contstantly putting out fires, and this game had none of that.

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Ragh Gavar
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DaveD wrote:
Firemeboy wrote:
By the second or third turn, we got one of the three cards that has you add even more cylons.



Have you actually only got 3 Cylon attack cards? There should be 10.


This. If you only have 3 in your deck, then there's something wrong.

As an aside, we had a problem in our first game where the player delegated to shuffle the crisis cards, didn't shuffle very well. The cylon attack cards were all bunched together.

=][=
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Marion Jensen
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Maybe I'm using the wrong term. I'm talking about the card that shows a diagram of the board, and shows you where to put the various Cylon ships. I said there were only three because I thought that is what it said in the rules. I didn't actually count them up, but we only saw one, and got through a good portion of the crisis deck.
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brian
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DaveD wrote:
Firemeboy wrote:
By the second or third turn, we got one of the three cards that has you add even more cylons.



Have you actually only got 3 Cylon attack cards? There should be 10.

Yeah, that is odd. Should be the 10 which means every 7 turns (on average) you should be seeing an attack card.

Also, with 4 players, you should have had the sympathizer. It might have been a more fair fight with 2 on 2.
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Marion Jensen
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We had the sympathizer, but he kept playing as normal because we had a low resource. Maybe we played that aspect wrong?
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Chris J Davis
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Firemeboy wrote:
Maybe I'm using the wrong term. I'm talking about the card that shows a diagram of the board, and shows you where to put the various Cylon ships. I said there were only three because I thought that is what it said in the rules. I didn't actually count them up, but we only saw one, and got through a good portion of the crisis deck.


Yeah - there should be 10 of those. Go through the crisis deck and make sure they're all there (and not clumped together at the bottom).
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H-B-G
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When I first played the game, I asked the owner how many cylon attack cards were in there and he said 3. I soon went out and got my own copy and found there were 10. Just looking at the online rules, I notice they refer, on page 10, to

Quote:
These Crisis Cards feature an image of Galactica and some
surrounding ships


I suppose at first glance, the word These could be misread as Three.
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Neil
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To ensure that the cylon invasion cards are well spread out in the deck, I use the pandemic shuffle method:

-lay all 10 cylon invasion cards out next to each other
-add one of the other cards to each of these 10 and repeat until the entire deck is split evenly into 10 piles
-shuffle each pile separately and pile them on top of each other.

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Marion Jensen
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I will verify that all of those cards are in there. And Neil, that sounds like a really good idea.

Thanks, all, for the help. I'm hoping we can have a better experience next time. Sounds like maybe it's just a bit of bad luck on the first time out.
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Gary Laporte
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I'll also use the pandemic way of shuffling in my next games, but only with 6 Cylon attack cards, this way it's always possible to have several attacks one after the other.
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B C Z
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Hatchling wrote:
To ensure that the cylon invasion cards are well spread out in the deck, I use the pandemic shuffle method:

-lay all 10 cylon invasion cards out next to each other
-add one of the other cards to each of these 10 and repeat until the entire deck is split evenly into 10 piles
-shuffle each pile separately and pile them on top of each other.



I contend that this is not a fair shuffle and gives knowledge to the precogs in the group (Boomer & Rosslyn) that if they hit such a card, they know it's the only one in the next X cards.

Just shuffle 7-9 times and it's random.
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Ragh Gavar
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byronczimmer wrote:
I contend that this is not a fair shuffle and gives knowledge to the precogs in the group (Boomer & Rosslyn) that if they hit such a card, they know it's the only one in the next X cards.


I agree. Just add one Cylon attack card to the Crisis deck for every Cylon attack card in the game and shuffle thoroughly.

=][=

(yes, it was)
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Will
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Firemeboy wrote:
When one of the players found out he was a cylon, he tried to stop us, but it was three against 1. With him only drawing two cards, and the rest of us drawing 5-6, there was nothing really he could do.
What did we miss?


As an aside, cylons win in our game group about 75% of the time. Remember the secrecy rules (FFG put out an official FAQ that includes some secrecy clarifications). Like a person can say they can help a little or a lot on skill checks but nothing else.

There's a lot the cylon player should do. Like for instance, if one resource dial is low, he should target that resource. For instance, getting the 2 crisis cards and picking one. If the humans have a skill check where they need to pass, throwing in a big negative card can hurt them.

Don't forget the destiny deck (has 10 cards, 2 of every color mixed up, and you add 2 of these to every skill check). Quite often the destiny deck can help the cylons.

Fuel is a critical resource, since BSG needs to go distance of 8 plus another jump (although that last jump doesn't use fuel, however if at any time a turn ends with fuel at 0 cylons win) and most of the destination cards use at least 1 fuel, its not uncommon to finish the game with only 1 or 2 fuel remaining. Its a good resource for the cylons to target.

After you've learned the game it should take around 2 hours for 4 players and 3 hours for 6 players (in my experiance).

Finally, if you've played a few times and the humans always win, the rulebook contains official rules for adjusting the starting resources on the dials to make it easier or harder for humans to win.
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John Clark
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byronczimmer wrote:
Hatchling wrote:
To ensure that the cylon invasion cards are well spread out in the deck, I use the pandemic shuffle method:

-lay all 10 cylon invasion cards out next to each other
-add one of the other cards to each of these 10 and repeat until the entire deck is split evenly into 10 piles
-shuffle each pile separately and pile them on top of each other.



I contend that this is not a fair shuffle and gives knowledge to the precogs in the group (Boomer & Rosslyn) that if they hit such a card, they know it's the only one in the next X cards.

Just shuffle 7-9 times and it's random.


Agreed. Consider: someone plays a scout card, puts an attack card into play, and claims both cards were "bad". Such a scenario could never happen if the deck was shuffled the way Hatchling describes.
 
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Chris J Davis
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Carl Ramrod wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
Hatchling wrote:
To ensure that the cylon invasion cards are well spread out in the deck, I use the pandemic shuffle method:

-lay all 10 cylon invasion cards out next to each other
-add one of the other cards to each of these 10 and repeat until the entire deck is split evenly into 10 piles
-shuffle each pile separately and pile them on top of each other.



I contend that this is not a fair shuffle and gives knowledge to the precogs in the group (Boomer & Rosslyn) that if they hit such a card, they know it's the only one in the next X cards.

Just shuffle 7-9 times and it's random.


Agreed. Consider: someone plays a scout card, puts an attack card into play, and claims both cards were "bad". Such a scenario could never happen if the deck was shuffled the way Hatchling describes.


Well, it *could*... it would just be less likely (I think... I don't know the maths, so maybe it would actually have exactly the same probability).
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John Clark
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bleached_lizard wrote:

Well, it *could*... it would just be less likely (I think... I don't know the maths, so maybe it would actually have exactly the same probability).


It could only happen on the tenth turn, the twentieth turn, etc.

(Well, only on the tenth and eleventh crisis cards to be revealed, and the twentieth and twenty-first, etc).
 
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Carl Ramrod wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
Hatchling wrote:
To ensure that the cylon invasion cards are well spread out in the deck, I use the pandemic shuffle method:

-lay all 10 cylon invasion cards out next to each other
-add one of the other cards to each of these 10 and repeat until the entire deck is split evenly into 10 piles
-shuffle each pile separately and pile them on top of each other.



I contend that this is not a fair shuffle and gives knowledge to the precogs in the group (Boomer & Rosslyn) that if they hit such a card, they know it's the only one in the next X cards.

Just shuffle 7-9 times and it's random.


Agreed. Consider: someone plays a scout card, puts an attack card into play, and claims both cards were "bad". Such a scenario could never happen if the deck was shuffled the way Hatchling describes.


Well, it *could*... it would just be less likely (I think... I don't know the maths, so maybe it would actually have exactly the same probability).


With a normal shuffle, I believe there is a roughly 75% chance in a game that at some point, at least 2 attack cards will follow each other, the chance after each Cylons attack card that the next card will be a Cylon attack card is somewhere around 13-15% (It slightly rises with time, don't ask me why), thus, the chance that the next two drawn cards after a Cylon Attack card will be Cylon Attack cards as well is somewhere along 1-2%.

With the proposed shuffle, the chance that two cards after each other will be Cylon attack cards during a game is a mere 18%, the chance that the next card drawn after a CA card will be CA as well is just 2%, under no circumstances can you draw 3 CA cards in a row.

Those are just QnD calculations and by no means exact, but the trend is obvious...
 
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Carl Ramrod wrote:
Agreed. Consider: someone plays a scout card, puts an attack card into play, and claims both cards were "bad". Such a scenario could never happen if the deck was shuffled the way Hatchling describes.

Actually, this scenario only works for Roslin's power; Boomer's power and Scout cards only allow you to see one card.
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Andreas Krüger
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The cylons should not reveal too early. They may rather sow discord, send innocents to the brig (where they must play cards to get out), and let the humans overshoot skill checks. Even if everybody knows you are a cylon, they may fail to brig you and must be careful which cards you may throw in. They may lose more cards this way than by fighting your super crisis.

To be honest, I played only once and we lost even without any cylons on board after a few turns. A raider party on board killed us before first jump. All I know about the game is what I read here, and this is a lot :-).
 
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pseudotheist wrote:
Carl Ramrod wrote:
Agreed. Consider: someone plays a scout card, puts an attack card into play, and claims both cards were "bad". Such a scenario could never happen if the deck was shuffled the way Hatchling describes.

Actually, this scenario only works for Roslin's power; Boomer's power and Scout cards only allow you to see one card.
Doesn't stop such players from making that claim none of the less


On a more practical note, Roslin is sure in a pickle if her Religious Visions both produce cylon attack cards.
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