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Subject: Avalon Hill General Civilization Reference DVD rss

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I've come to accept the fact that I won't be able to find a copy of Civilization and Advanced Civ. for a reasonable price. I've been seeing these reference DVDs on eBay. Includes:

The Avalon Hill Civilization reference DVD has everything you need -
Game Rules in PDF format
Game charts, cards, and unpunched counters
Variant cards, and Map
A PDF with all the Avalon Hill General magazine articles
A full size 600dpi PDF map of the game map

Does anyone have any experience with these DVDs?
Is it worth it? Any words of advice?

 
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Chris Johnson
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After all is said and done, if you make your own copy, you're likely to have spent a fair fraction of the money, and way, way, way more time than it would cost to just buy the game, even at the current prices.

If you're going to go that way, rather than paying someone for the DVD, I'm pretty sure just aboutt everything you need is available here on the 'geek, or on other sites out there.

(There's also a site out there that will sell you DTPed versions of pretty much the entire game; not sure how it stacks up to the current prices for the games, though...)
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Brad Miller
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It's also stealing, (on the part of the eBay sellers of such crap). Don't encourage theft.
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I would not like to encourage theft. But this particular eBay listing carries this disclaimer:

-------------------------
The Copyright Question:

Public Domain:

The Avalon Hill General magazine was published from 1964 to 1998. Any of these magazines printed before January 1, 1978 have already fallen into the public domain. The purchase of Avalon Hill in 1998 by Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro, resulted in the return of many of the copyrights to the original designers. We have determined, after repeated contact with Avalon Hill, Wizards of the Coast, and Hasbro, that the copyrights for all these magazines are now in the public domain.

Fair Use:

Due to the fact that these magazines have been out of print and unavailable to the public for so long, the 'fair use' clause of the copyright act clearly applies for all of these magazines. It is also noteworthy that Avalon Hill authorized reproduction of General magazine articles for a nominal fee, back in the days when they were still being printed. Also, since we have changed the format of these magazines to electronic PDF and have enhanced them with a text search ability, the 'fair use' clause clearly applies.

-------------------------

What do you think?

What about actual copies of the game going for $150 +. Some may call that 'highway robbery'.

The game has been out of print for years and I just want to play it. Can you offer another suggestion?

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Marcelo Antunes
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There´s the CivProject - www.civproject.net

My homemade, brazilian portuguese translated copy, used all materials from BGG (revised map, revised cards..i think the only thing from the original are the counters, which happens to be in BGG too).
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Herb Petro
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It is all a lie.

IANAL, but rights being returned to the original owners does NOT mean that the materials are public domain. No response from WOTC means that they did not want to waste their time, not that the material is not copyrighted. Copyright does not have to be defended as carefully as trademarks and can be reasserted/enforced at any time.

Fair use provisions don't apply simply because material is out of print.

If you want to read up on U.S. copyright laws for general edification, then try this site: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/

You are in Canada, and the laws may vary, but as a signatory to the Berne Convention, there will be many similarities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_convention

rockusultimus wrote:
I would not like to encourage theft. But this particular eBay listing carries this disclaimer:

-------------------------
The Copyright Question:

Public Domain:

The Avalon Hill General magazine was published from 1964 to 1998. Any of these magazines printed before January 1, 1978 have already fallen into the public domain. The purchase of Avalon Hill in 1998 by Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro, resulted in the return of many of the copyrights to the original designers. We have determined, after repeated contact with Avalon Hill, Wizards of the Coast, and Hasbro, that the copyrights for all these magazines are now in the public domain.

Fair Use:

Due to the fact that these magazines have been out of print and unavailable to the public for so long, the 'fair use' clause of the copyright act clearly applies for all of these magazines. It is also noteworthy that Avalon Hill authorized reproduction of General magazine articles for a nominal fee, back in the days when they were still being printed. Also, since we have changed the format of these magazines to electronic PDF and have enhanced them with a text search ability, the 'fair use' clause clearly applies.

-------------------------

What do you think?

What about actual copies of the game going for $150 +. Some may call that 'highway robbery'.

The game has been out of print for years and I just want to play it. Can you offer another suggestion?

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Steve Bachman
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Ignore the legitimacy of the disclaimer for now, and ask yourself what the copyright of General magazines has to do with everything else on the CD/DVD. That alone should clue you in to the type of person you are dealing with.

If a dozen copies of the game are available for sale, and the lowest price is $150, that isn't "highway robbery", it is "market value". Sure, it is steep, but it is also a classic game that has been out of print for a long time.

Go to the civproject site if you want to make your own copy. At least they are doing it out of love for the game rather than trying to profit from it.

rockusultimus wrote:
I would not like to encourage theft. But this particular eBay listing carries this disclaimer:

-------------------------
The Copyright Question:

Public Domain:

The Avalon Hill General magazine was published from 1964 to 1998. Any of these magazines printed before January 1, 1978 have already fallen into the public domain. The purchase of Avalon Hill in 1998 by Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro, resulted in the return of many of the copyrights to the original designers. We have determined, after repeated contact with Avalon Hill, Wizards of the Coast, and Hasbro, that the copyrights for all these magazines are now in the public domain.

Fair Use:

Due to the fact that these magazines have been out of print and unavailable to the public for so long, the 'fair use' clause of the copyright act clearly applies for all of these magazines. It is also noteworthy that Avalon Hill authorized reproduction of General magazine articles for a nominal fee, back in the days when they were still being printed. Also, since we have changed the format of these magazines to electronic PDF and have enhanced them with a text search ability, the 'fair use' clause clearly applies.

-------------------------

What do you think?

What about actual copies of the game going for $150 +. Some may call that 'highway robbery'.

The game has been out of print for years and I just want to play it. Can you offer another suggestion?

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OK guys, thanks. All good points. Everything I needed to hear.

Next question: Is www.civproject.net working for anybody else? It keeps timing out for me...

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Marcelo Antunes
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The site is ok for me. What happens is that it is, as they say, "in vacation" - meaning there´s just a white page with commentaries and a link. This link is where the files are: http://www.civproject.net/Archive/CivProject/
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zepo wrote:
The site is ok for me. What happens is that it is, as they say, "in vacation" - meaning there´s just a white page with commentaries and a link. This link is where the files are: http://www.civproject.net/Archive/CivProject/

Yup, tried that yesterday too, but it was all timing out.
Seems to be working this morning. Thanks!
 
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John Sizemore
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Stealing? From whom, exactly?
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Bart de Groot
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skipsizemore wrote:
Stealing? From whom, exactly?

From the current copyright holders. Don't pay for goods from someone who doesn't own what he's selling.
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Jean-Philippe Beland
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Current copyright holders don't make a penny with selling/buying second hand games.
 
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MarchandDeBoeufs wrote:
Current copyright holders don't make a penny with selling/buying second hand games.


Also any game out of print make no money for the original owner either.

So if you have to make a copy that is the only way to get it you are taking from no one as no one is selling it except second hand.
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