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Subject: Cable News Tidbits of the Day rss

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-Carlos Watson (liberal) on CNN used the "slippery slope" argument (recent RSP topic) for why we shouldn't call Michael Jackson a pederass.

-Bill O'Reilly (conservative) on Fox told two Republican radio talk show hosts to stop worrying about President Obama's birth certificate, college transcripts, etc. Good call.

-Rachel Maddow (liberal) on MSNBC did an entire segment on President Obama's birth certificate. Apparently neither side will let it go.

-Some conservative blogger used "disingenuous" on O'Reilly's show. I didn't hear anything else she said. She also did the finger quotes thing.
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DCAnderson wrote:
So my decision to not watch Cable News at all for the past several months is still proving to be the right decision.

Excellent.

I wonder about this kind of thing personally. I think it is easier on my peace of mind to tune out. On the other hand, I think it is important to stay informed. I find it useful to be aware of what people are saying about important issues. Note I said important issues. When ratings whores go off on Michael Jackson or bikini car washes and the like, I'm outta there.
 
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Wrayman wrote:
I wonder about this kind of thing personally. I think it is easier on my peace of mind to tune out. On the other hand, I think it is important to stay informed.


If you wanted to spend X amount of time to stay informed to the maximum extent possible, your TV wouldn't be involved, except maybe if you get PBS.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Wrayman wrote:
I wonder about this kind of thing personally. I think it is easier on my peace of mind to tune out. On the other hand, I think it is important to stay informed.


If you wanted to spend X amount of time to stay informed to the maximum extent possible, your TV wouldn't be involved, except maybe if you get PBS.


I think I'll start another thread on this topic. I disagree with you. I don't find PBS to be the ultimate source of information on TV. I find it to be as prone to bias as almost anyone. Their pretension of objectivity makes it harder to see but it is there. I agree that TV isn't a great news medium. It is too prone to sensationalism. I think that all things considered, it is one of the most important and effective news sources however.
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pronoblem baalberith
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October 4th will be one year without TV! I went eight years before 1988-1996. (a woman ruined that for me).

I don't think that there's much information on TV compared to the internet, library, newspapers and magazines. TV is programmed. You get what they have on the menu and you pay for it by watching ads.

There's nothing entertaining on TV either... there's such a huge potential for the medium as it reaches into so many homes. It sad... It simply controls minds - CONSUME! lies to people about what is going on in the world and otherwise makes people unproductive & fat couch monkeys.
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pronoblem wrote:
October 4th will be one year without TV! I went eight years before 1988-1996. (a woman ruined that for me).

I don't think that there's much information on TV compared to the internet, library, newspapers and magazines. TV is programmed. You get what they have on the menu and you pay for it by watching ads.

There's nothing entertaining on TV either... there's such a huge potential for the medium as it reaches into so many homes. It sad... It simply controls minds - CONSUME! lies to people about what is going on in the world and otherwise makes people unproductive & fat couch monkeys.

I actually agree with this. I have thought more and more lately about canceling our cable subscription. What there is of real value to me is mostly readily available online. Having had tv around my whole life, it seems like such a drastic step. I may make the leap at some point.

The other side of the story for me is the easy passivity of it. I see how that lulls people into wasting their lives. For me however, I like being able to turn on the tube and follow a Mariner's game or listen in the background to O'Reilly or Beck. It is much like radio in that regard. As far as O'Reilly and Beck go, I like them better on tv than on the radio. When I specifically want something, the interwebs is much more useful. When I want to lazily absorb a little of what's goin' on in the world, I like tv better. I just don't know any more if that is worth what I pay for the privilege every month. If I could subscribe to cable channels a la carte, I would feel much better about it. I hate subscribing to loads of garbage I don't want in the house.
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David desJardins
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Wrayman wrote:
I don't find PBS to be the ultimate source of information on TV. I find it to be as prone to bias as almost anyone. Their pretension of objectivity makes it harder to see but it is there.


Information and bias are not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible for a show to be biased and also highly informative, and also possible for another show to be neither biased nor informative. It's good to be aware of bias, but it doesn't prevent one from getting information if one wants.

I sponsor one show on PBS, which I would not claim to be unbiased at all, but I still think is also pretty informative. Certainly compared to most of what's on TV.

I think it's an objective fact that there's a lot more information in an hour of NewsHour than an hour of CNN. Whether there's more or less bias is of course a subjective question to which different people will give different answers.
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pronoblem wrote:
October 4th will be one year without TV! I went eight years before 1988-1996. (a woman ruined that for me).

I don't think that there's much information on TV compared to the internet, library, newspapers and magazines. TV is programmed. You get what they have on the menu and you pay for it by watching ads.

There's nothing entertaining on TV either... there's such a huge potential for the medium as it reaches into so many homes. It sad... It simply controls minds - CONSUME! lies to people about what is going on in the world and otherwise makes people unproductive & fat couch monkeys.


Being that I am a huge fan of Notre Dame football, Browns football, Cavaliers basketball, and NHRA, there is absolutely, positively no frickin' way I am ever getting rid of my TV short of the government physically confiscating it from me.

I just enjoy watching SPORTS for free* too much to give it up.




*Free = not having to pay admission prices to the sporting event. I realize the cable box and electricity are not "free".
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Drew1365 wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
If you wanted to spend X amount of time to stay informed to the maximum extent possible, your TV wouldn't be involved, except maybe if you get PBS.


They have at least two cartoons featuring talking dogs.


While not in the least familiar with either of these canine commentators, I would be willing to wager that their insights are greater than the sum output of Fox News, CNN, and the network news services all put together.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Wrayman wrote:
I don't find PBS to be the ultimate source of information on TV. I find it to be as prone to bias as almost anyone. Their pretension of objectivity makes it harder to see but it is there.


Information and bias are not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible for a show to be biased and also highly informative, and also possible for another show to be neither biased nor informative. It's good to be aware of bias, but it doesn't prevent one from getting information if one wants.

I sponsor one show on PBS, which I would not claim to be unbiased at all, but I still think is also pretty informative. Certainly compared to most of what's on TV.

I think it's an objective fact that there's a lot more information in an hour of NewsHour than an hour of CNN. Whether there's more or less bias is of course a subjective question to which different people will give different answers.


You are quite right. I emphasized bias rather than information because I find that bias is usually the predominant factor in news propagation. What people choose to talk about is the very first thing. I find PBS to be pretty good and informative but I also find that they will focus on certain ideological areas and completely ignore others. It is not a complete picture. I don't find them particularly worse in this regard. I just find it frustrating more often because of their unbiased pretension.
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chrisnd wrote:
I just enjoy watching SPORTS for free* too much to give it up.


I listen to Baseball on the radio.

It really is all about what you are willing to pay for. NESN (New England Sports Network that has Red Sox games) is in a package that costs ~ $60. I am essentially paying $60/mo (cancelling it in October-April) just to have that one channel and getting 250 channels that I do not watch. Not only is it that I cannot get that one channel à la carte, I am giving money towards crap that I do not want to support. I might justify the $60 if I could give it all to NESN... I tried the MLB.TV online but it blacked out local games. I could not watch Red Sox. So, I tried to use a proxy. It would for letting me in to the site to watch the games... but the proxy was too slow and made the audio/video such a poor quality. So, radio it is.
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pronoblem wrote:
chrisnd wrote:
I just enjoy watching SPORTS for free* too much to give it up.


I listen to Baseball on the radio.

It really is all about what you are willing to pay for. NESN (New England Sports Network that has Red Sox games) is in a package that costs ~ $60. I am essentially paying $60/mo (cancelling it in October-April) just to have that one channel and getting 250 channels that I do not watch. Not only is it that I cannot get that one channel à la carte, I am giving money towards crap that I do not want to support. I might justify the $60 if I could give it all to NESN... I tried the MLB.TV online but it blacked out local games. I could not watch Red Sox. So, I tried to use a proxy. It would for letting me in to the site to watch the games... but the proxy was too slow and made the audio/video such a poor quality. So, radio it is.


Yeah, I see your point. And it is pretty cool that you can handle listening to your sports over watching it.

But Westwood One didn't get renewed by ND football (they opted for ISP Radio instead), which means Tony Roberts is no longer the announcer. I can't stand listening to Don Criqui or Allen Pinket, so it's gotta be TV. Even though I detest the TV guys, too (Pat Hayden and Tom Hammond).

Joe Tait is the voice of the Cavs - and he is much better than the regular TV announcers (which include ND alum Austin Carr). And although he's the best in the business, nothing beats actually watching LeBron do what he does at times.

NHRA isn't carried on radio.

The Brown's radio announcer is some local Sports news dude - guy sucks completely.

Besides, I am a visual guy when it comes to my sports. I really prefer the TV, and the $55/month I pay for digital HD TV with TiVo is worth it for the amount of sports that I watch regularly.

My wife watches the junk!
 
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Wrayman wrote:
I find PBS to be pretty good and informative but I also find that they will focus on certain ideological areas and completely ignore others.


Can you give some examples of important news topics you think the NewsHour ignores but other TV news sources cover more thoroughly or completely?

Maybe you have noticed something I haven't.

Quote:
I just find it frustrating more often because of their unbiased pretension.


By this I understand that you think PBS pretends to be unbiased.

I'm not sure where you got that impression. I do think they claim to be balanced. Of course, Fox News also claims to be balanced. I don't think any of them would claim to be unbiased. Everyone has bias.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Wrayman wrote:
I find PBS to be pretty good and informative but I also find that they will focus on certain ideological areas and completely ignore others.


Can you give some examples of important news topics you think the NewsHour ignores but other TV news sources cover more thoroughly or completely?

Maybe you have noticed something I haven't.

Quote:
I just find it frustrating more often because of their unbiased pretension.


By this I understand that you think PBS pretends to be unbiased.

I'm not sure where you got that impression. I do think they claim to be balanced. Of course, Fox News also claims to be balanced. I don't think any of them would claim to be unbiased. Everyone has bias.

I think we agree more than disagree on this point. The difference may be a matter of interpretation. I find that some are more aware of their bias than others. On a similar note, I am of the impression that liberal/progressive people are more likely to consider themselves moderate than are conservative/traditionalist people.
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Wrayman wrote:
I think we agree more than disagree on this point. The difference may be a matter of interpretation. I find that some are more aware of their bias than others. On a similar note, I am of the impression that liberal/progressive people are more likely to consider themselves moderate than are conservative/traditionalist people.


I think that's because the conservative movement has been more successful at making "liberal" a dirty word.

I would still like examples of how the NewsHour (the main PBS news program) focuses on certain ideological areas and completely ignores others.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Wrayman wrote:
I think we agree more than disagree on this point. The difference may be a matter of interpretation. I find that some are more aware of their bias than others. On a similar note, I am of the impression that liberal/progressive people are more likely to consider themselves moderate than are conservative/traditionalist people.


I think that's because the conservative movement has been more successful at making "liberal" a dirty word.

I would still like examples of how the NewsHour (the main PBS news program) focuses on certain ideological areas and completely ignores others.


I can't give you one. I haven't watched NewsHour in a long time. I can only reference a vague world-suffering/America-bad theme. That is the vibe that turned me off to it anyway. I doubt that they are always like that.
 
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DCAnderson wrote:
Basically if you don't devote approximatly half your airtime to letting Rush Limbaugh clones voice their opinion, then you're giving a biased viewpoint.


I'm hoping Wrayman will give an actual, serious answer. It can be hard to get him to answer questions or expand on his claims, but mocking the answer before he even gives it seems a bit much.
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Wrayman wrote:
I can't give you one. I haven't watched NewsHour in a long time. I can only reference a vague world-suffering/America-bad theme. That is the vibe that turned me off to it anyway. I doubt that they are always like that.


Oops. OK, now mocking is appropriate. whistle
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DaviddesJ wrote:
DCAnderson wrote:
Basically if you don't devote approximatly half your airtime to letting Rush Limbaugh clones voice their opinion, then you're giving a biased viewpoint.


I'm hoping Wrayman will give an actual, serious answer. It can be hard to get him to answer questions or expand on his claims, but mocking the answer before he even gives it seems a bit much.


For the record, I try to answer serious questions seriously. I sometimes struggle to get a point across to you. There is a significant disconnect between your worldview and mine. (At least that is the case as I observe it from my worldview. )
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Wrayman wrote:
I can't give you one. I haven't watched NewsHour in a long time. I can only reference a vague world-suffering/America-bad theme. That is the vibe that turned me off to it anyway. I doubt that they are always like that.


Oops. OK, now mocking is appropriate. whistle

All I ask is that you make it a mock with substance that we can talk about.
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DCAnderson wrote:

Sorry, my joke is more of a crack at the whole idea of a liberal media bias in general.

I think that the idea of liberal bias is largely an invention of the past decade by Republican commentators like Rush Limbaugh, who pretty much feel that unless the media is giving undue weight to presenting stories in the kind of light that guys like Limbaugh would, then they are presenting a liberal bias.

This kind of thinking is why we now have a total shit pile network like Fox news which is way crazy more biased to the right than any other network had been to the left.


That is a fine, substantive and conversation inviting post. Thank you.

I think you are quite wrong.

First, I don't agree with the common assertion that Limbaugh is representative of or speaks for the conservative viewpoint. Not in any kind of authoritative way. He is one voice of many. In my opinion he is an insufferable blow hard that occasionally trips over a substantive point. I think your use of the Limbaugh brush indicates your lack of familiarity with the range of opinions that exist among conservative commentators.

Second, I think your characterization of Fox News demonstrates my previous point pretty well. Fox has bias but no more so than any other outlet in my opinion. They are also noteworthy in that their shows typically give a seat to a dissenting voice. Most others don't do that. They are aware of their bias and include debate. News talk is best when it is like that, minus a lot of yelling over each other. That drives me nuts.
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Wrayman wrote:
pronoblem wrote:
October 4th will be one year without TV! I went eight years before 1988-1996. (a woman ruined that for me).

I don't think that there's much information on TV compared to the internet, library, newspapers and magazines. TV is programmed. You get what they have on the menu and you pay for it by watching ads.

There's nothing entertaining on TV either... there's such a huge potential for the medium as it reaches into so many homes. It sad... It simply controls minds - CONSUME! lies to people about what is going on in the world and otherwise makes people unproductive & fat couch monkeys.

I actually agree with this. I have thought more and more lately about canceling our cable subscription. What there is of real value to me is mostly readily available online. Having had tv around my whole life, it seems like such a drastic step. I may make the leap at some point.


I think it's pretentious blather. I've been hearing the same holier-than-thou TV put downs for 30 years. This is a thread about TV so it stands to reason someone who doesn't watch TV will post about how he/she thinks TV is for losers.

Hogwash.

TV is cool. Not just all the fun on cable news but all the cool shit on Discovery, Military, History, ESPN, Speed, etc., etc.,etc.

Soon enough there will be no real need for TV as we know it now anyway... which ought to give the pretentious snoots something to think about... who will they declare stupider than them when there's no Boob Toob to prove it?

Is the Net the great equalizer? Making us all as cool as the pretentious ones? Or has it made them as stupid as us TV lovers?

Quote:
The other side of the story for me is the easy passivity of it.


C'mon Wray... so is sleep, sit down dinners, baths, driving the minivan, going to a movie, playing a board game and about 12 million other fun or relaxing things. Passive pleasures are only a bad thing if you never, ever, ever get off your ass and exercise or maybe buy and read some books or something.

I do agree though that access to the multi-verse of programming is getting expensive and that cost will soon have many of us disconnecting cable and satellites like we are now doing to land lines.

Once pay-for-content becomes more popular on the Net I suspect we'll all be logging on instead of dialing in. I can watch almost every program I like on the Net now except for the news channels. Even the sports I watch is becoming accessible online. MotoGP sells a season pass for about $80 that gives me all 18 events plus practice, Super Pole and dozens of interviews and special features... not to mention access to the entire MotoGP library.. all in HD.

World Superbike makes every event available online at no cost within a couple days of the events. Once they get it together they'll follow suit with MotoGP. So instead of $65 a month I can now pay 10% of that and get some of the most vital programming to me.

But hey! What about Glenn Beck though? I watched his show last night as it repeats just before Red Eye. I was impressed that something he "exposed" on Friday re: the CARS program was serious enough news to end up with the White House acknowledging that their disclaimer was in error and removing it from the web site. Try and get something like that going on PBS... not likely.

TV is still cool and I still like it, particularly the variety of news programs. Soon enough though, it will be a relic.
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Drew1365 wrote:
DCAnderson wrote:
This kind of thinking is why we now have a total shit pile network like Fox news which is way crazy more biased to the right than any other network had been to the left.


You've never watched MSNBC have you?


Yeah their not quite right leaning enough. They need to be more like fox.
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DWTripp wrote:
I think it's pretentious blather. I've been hearing the same holier-than-thou TV put downs for 30 years. This is a thread about TV so it stands to reason someone who doesn't watch TV will post about how he/she thinks TV is for losers.

Hogwash.

TV is cool. Not just all the fun on cable news but all the cool shit on Discovery, Military, History, ESPN, Speed, etc., etc.,etc.

Soon enough there will be no real need for TV as we know it now anyway... which ought to give the pretentious snoots something to think about... who will they declare stupider than them when there's no Boob Toob to prove it?

Is the Net the great equalizer? Making us all as cool as the pretentious ones? Or has it made them as stupid as us TV lovers?


No, TV is way uncool. ...and no, the net is not any equalizer - it is just as stupid if you look in the right places. It is simply not programmed and you can shut off advertising so you can avoid the crap. How many "hit in the crotch" videos are there on youtube with millions of hits? Yeah, there's good stuff on TV, and it is not blather if you act on your ethics is it? Though, if it were a la carte I'd would get NESN... and possibly Ovation TV, IFC and C-Span... those were the only channels that I did watch when I had it... Seriously though... I just don't have the time or the patience to sit idle for as long as an hour and I entertain myself with participatory things... like games, making music and sex.

Kep in mind that the average 65 year old person in the US has spent 8 years watching TV. I DO NOT WANT TO BE THAT PERSON!
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