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Subject: Blue Moon AI rss

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Ben Bateson
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It would appear the original website for this is down. Permanently.

Does anyone still have a copy of the installer?
 
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Ed Sherman
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I just heard about this -- I would be interested as well.

UPDATE: here it is: http://keldon.net/bluemoon/ (thanks, Keldon)

Feel free to ignore the arguing in the rest of this thread.
 
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Keldon Jones
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I didn't realize 3 or 4 days was permanent! I went away for a long weekend and it just so happened that I had an ISP problem at the beginning of my absence. It should be back online now. Sorry about that.
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brian
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mrkeldon wrote:
I didn't realize 3 or 4 days was permanent! I went away for a long weekend and it just so happened that I had an ISP problem at the beginning of my absence. It should be back online now. Sorry about that.

Wasn't aware that there was a site like this. May we have the address?
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
mrkeldon wrote:
I didn't realize 3 or 4 days was permanent! I went away for a long weekend and it just so happened that I had an ISP problem at the beginning of my absence. It should be back online now. Sorry about that.

Wasn't aware that there was a site like this. May we have the address?


It is in the FAQ list, which you can find in the links section.
 
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Ben Bateson
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Sorry, Keldon. Did you a bit of a disservice there. I checked a couple of weeks ago, though, and the server was down then too. You can understand my panic!
 
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brian
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Dearlove wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
mrkeldon wrote:
I didn't realize 3 or 4 days was permanent! I went away for a long weekend and it just so happened that I had an ISP problem at the beginning of my absence. It should be back online now. Sorry about that.

Wasn't aware that there was a site like this. May we have the address?


It is in the FAQ list, which you can find in the links section.

Not sure why you are so resistent to being fully helpful. I guess you just want the traffic through your FAQ instead of answering the question directly.

So for others looking, here is the direct link:
http://www.blue-moon-liga.com/modules.php?name=Downloads
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Christopher Dearlove
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Not sure why you are so resistent to being fully helpful.


Ah yes, the Internet, where it isn't good enough to do someone a free service, it even has to be on their terms.

Basically my time (especially when I replied, and on a mobile device with limited capabilities I'm still exploring) is limited. I had enough time for the reply I gave but not for the one you have rudely demanded. Tough. I don't owe you a free lunch. Either take my reply or not. It might just have been "FAQ".

Quote:
I guess you just want the traffic through your FAQ instead of answering the question directly.


The assumption of one who assumes everyone is out for himself. As it happens I get nothing no matter who visits my pages, except if too many people do it might cost more. I don't get paid (not even on Geek gold) for answering questions and the hundreds of hours I have put in just to be sniped at by ungrateful people like you.

To all those who don't take such an attitude on the other hand, you're welcome. Equally as I don't get paid, I don't have to do it either. And to those who provide feedback, thanks.
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brian
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Thanks for taking the time to answer in more detail.

I don't think my request is rude, the question was about the specific address. You didn't answer my question.

Your signature should just be "It's in the FAQ" as that is your typical response on every Blue Moon question. I answer a lot of rule questions but never say "It's in the FAQ" without referencing the FAQ or going into detail about the answer. And if I don't have the time to respond in full, I either don't answer or state where it is and that I will find it when I have free time - and then I come back and edit my answer.

But instead, I have to go find the link again, find the document you reference, and then scan the massive document trying to find which of the addresses referenced are the right one. So to save time for anyone else interested, I posted the direct link.

I consider your "FAQ answer" rude and condscending both here and elsewhere. To each their own.
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Christopher Dearlove
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
I don't think my request is rude, the question was about the specific address. You didn't answer my question.


I provided you with all the information you needed to get what you wanted, as you did. Pretty good answer in my book.

Quote:
Your signature should just be "It's in the FAQ" as that is your typical response on every Blue Moon question.


Do you know why FAQ lists were invented? It was so that people didn't have to answer questions every thime they were asked. They were invented so that people could reply "See the FAQ list." Or in other words, for exactly how I use it.

Quote:
I answer a lot of rule questions but never say "It's in the FAQ" without referencing the FAQ or going into detail about the answer.


Well, that defeats the object of the exercise. The answers in the FAQ list are ones I've put together with a great deal of care and attention. Rehashing them defeats that point.

Quote:
But instead, I have to go find the link again, find the document you reference, and then scan the massive document trying to find which of the addresses referenced are the right one.


So instead you expect me to do that? It's the only way I'd find the link. Basically if you want it, I expect you to do a bit of work rather than me. Sure, if a second of my time saved an hour of yours, maybe. But it would take me just as long as it ought to take you to find it. I've done more than my fair share.

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So to save time for anyone else interested, I posted the direct link.


Fine. I'm not stopping you.

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I consider your "FAQ answer" rude and condscending both here and elsewhere.


As I pointed out that us exactly how FAQ lists were designed. It's not rude or condescending - it's their intended use. You basically need to learn that neither the world nor I owe you anything.

There's a basic asymmetry here.

Me - done hundreds of hours of work to help Blue Moon players. Even if I answered every question ever answered in the future just with "FAQ" I would have done more than you ever will for the game.

You - insist I do more to help you, not prepared to go a little bit out of your way.
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Billy McBoatface
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Christopher, I don't think Brian is asking you to do more. I think he's saying that answering so many things with a terse "See the FAQ" comes off as unfriendly at best. I agree with him on this, that while it is helpful to somebody who doesn't know that the FAQ exists, at the same time it sounds like you're giving them person the brush off.

Other times I've seen you say the same thing, but more explicitly, something like "This is in the FAQ, but I can't remember where" or "This is in the FAQ, but I don't remember whether it is in the short version." It's amazing how just a few words to show that you want to be helpful changes the tone, these answers come off sounding like you're helping as much as you can in the time available (which is exactly what you are doing), instead of sounding like you're trying to get rid of somebody.

Just my opinion here though.
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Christopher Dearlove
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wmshub wrote:
Christopher, I don't think Brian is asking you to do more.


No, he clearly wanted me to actually provide the link, that would have been significantly more work. (As much for me as for him, so as he wants it, he can do it.)

Quote:
I think he's saying that answering so many things with a terse "See the FAQ" comes off as unfriendly at best. I agree with him on this, that while it is helpful to somebody who doesn't know that the FAQ exists, at the same time it sounds like you're giving them person the brush off.


First, on this occasion, I actually had enough time to refer to the links section. Second, even if I hadn't, just the comment to see the FAQ list is a thundering great hint that there is one. It's not rocket science to then find it.

If it seems unhelpful, well, my time is limited. I'm only finding time to type this because I'm multi-tasking, and frankly I'm more than a little disgruntled by the whole assumption that I owe him a favour.

Quote:
Other times I've seen you say the same thing, but more explicitly, something like "This is in the FAQ, but I can't remember where" or "This is in the FAQ, but I don't remember whether it is in the short version." It's amazing how just a few words to show that you want to be helpful changes the tone, these answers come off sounding like you're helping as much as you can in the time available (which is exactly what you are doing), instead of sounding like you're trying to get rid of somebody.


As I said, it's time. It was that answer or no answer. As it was I only just had enough time even for that. And go back and look at my answer, not just Brian moaning, It even says more than "See the FAQ list".

Frankly forget whether a few extra words might make you feel happier. Try looking at it from my side. Brian got an answer that was good enough - he found the link. Was his reaction "thanks". No, it was "you didn't do all the work for me". Does this make me - the one who actually does the work, lots of it - feel appreciated? No, it makes me feel pissed off. Is this going to encourage other people to put in similar amounts of effort? As I said, I didn't do this for a reward, and I've had a number of thanks from people who appreciated the work (one of whom was Keldon, nit-picking is good for AIs). No one owes me Geek gold (which is good, becase only one person ever has, or maybe it was two) or thumbs. But Brian was well over the line, and I called him on it. If "see the FAQ list" isn't good enough for you, move on.

Incidentally if you want better answers when "see the FAQ list" won't do and I'm answering not from home, pursuade Aldie to create a mobile friendly version of BGG - or if it exists, please point me to it. I can't even scroll this sort of window reliably

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Mark Johnson
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Dearlove wrote:
wmshub wrote:
Christopher, I don't think Brian is asking you to do more.


No, he clearly wanted me to actually provide the link, that would have been significantly more work. (As much for me as for him, so as he wants it, he can do it.)


It's clearly much more work to think and respond to your justification of what people interpret to be a cold or unfriendly response, than to simply type the URL the person wanted or simply to not have responded at all. Why not simply respond: 'google'? It's less work.
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Christopher Dearlove
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Eeeville wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
wmshub wrote:
Christopher, I don't think Brian is asking you to do more.


No, he clearly wanted me to actually provide the link, that would have been significantly more work. (As much for me as for him, so as he wants it, he can do it.)


It's clearly much more work to think and respond to your justification of what people interpret to be a cold or unfriendly response, than to simply type the URL the person wanted or simply to not have responded at all. Why not simply respond: 'google'? It's less work.


I'm actually having problems working that out. But I answered this morning, when I really was short of time (heading for work). Now I have a bit more time.

But "google" is not a helpful answer, it's something taken as read. See the FAQ list, and where to find it (though "Google" would answer the second half of that) is helpful. But how do you suppose I would type the URL? I don't recall it at all. I don't even guarantee to recall the FAQ link, and that's mine. If I'd planned to include the URL, I would have had to do just the same work (find the FAQ, find the question in it - which isn't that hard - and extract it). And by that time I would have been already well into time I didn't have.
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