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Struggle of Empires» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question re: country counters & control tiles rss

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Chris B
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I've had SoE for a while now, but am now just getting it on the table. I've read the rules a few times, the FAQ and a number of other posts on rules and I'm still unclear on a few things. It's probably a simple thing, but I've missed it.

In the rules under "Play Tips" it says "It helps to understand that country counters determine how many control tokens can exist in an area. E.g. there are 4 country counters for the Ottoman Empire, which means there will never be more than 4 control tokens in that area."

What am I missing here? It'll probably be clear once we play, but right now I can't see the link.

Thanks
 
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Steve Bauer
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There are 65 country counters in the game. 35 of these are passed out at the start of the game, 5 to each player, if less than 7 players the left overs are removed from the game. 30 are placed on the board as neutral control counters, 10 at the start of each war. These counter represent all the control tokens that will ever be on the board as you can not add new ones only take them from other players or from the neutral counters.

The advise is saying it is helpful to know that there are 7 control tokens for India as if in the second war they are all out placing a fort can be very useful as you may be less interesting in offense or if there are only 2 on the board knowing there are 5 more coming in the next war may encourage you to add strength there. Also knowing there range of strengths can help you prepare. You can play without these knowledge it is not the most important thing in the game but it does help. Also if there are less than 7 players then some counters are not going to be played witch makes the mix less important as you don;t know which ones are out of play.

There is a great spreedsheet of the counter mix in the files section.
Found it:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/8637
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alan beaumont
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Here is my take:

During Setup 10 Country counters are drawn and placed according to their identities. These are the neutrals available to attack in the first War. Each player then draws 5 Country counters for themselves. Instead of placing them they substitute their own control tokens in the appropriate positions. These Country counters won't reenter play, so put them aside. At the start of the 2nd and 3rd Wars another 10 neutrals will be placed, adding to any remaining. Anytime a player defeats a neutral they replace them with their own control marker and the Country counter goes out of play. Note that in a 7 player game this means every Country counter will get used (10, +35, +10, +10) by the start of the 3rd War.

The only ways to place additional control tokens are to defeat a Country counter, or attack another players's, or make substitutions of Pop or Slave markers. You can still attack another player's units in an area where they have no control tokens, but this won't create a token for you if you win and is only useful as a preemptive strike. In an area where no Country counters, or control tokens have yet been placed, no Victory Points will be scored, although it may still be useful to place units there in anticipation of opportunities in subsequent Wars.

If you haven't already, print out the Play aids which detail all of the counters and tiles. The ability to see at a glance what is already eliminated/purchased and what may yet enter play, levels the playing field for inexperienced players and eliminates a lot of down time.

Edits for grammar and detail
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Chris B
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Thanks for the responses. It makes sense now - as I read somewhere control is a zero sum situation, in that for you to gain it someone has to lose it - either a neutral or a player (who would have gained their's from a country counter via initial placement or defeat).

Now all I have to do is convince the group to play this - hopefully it's not too "wargamey" for them because it seems like such a good game.

 
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alan beaumont
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Peaceful trading nations?
boisse wrote:
,,,hopefully it's not too "wargamey"...
You shouldn't be disappointed; there is at least one recent review grumbling that not attacking much is too effective a tactic! The game is best with 4-6 players. If you are all newbies I suggest either playing out a few player turns, maybe the whole 1st War, then rebooting, or concentrating in the first game on getting through the game at pace rather than on the winning. The rules are more simple than they are written! Good luck.
 
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Chris B
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I like wargames and have a small collection. Most of the group however is not into wargames. I think that this has enough other themes that it'll be OK.

I was going to ask what # of players the game is best with so thanks for that.
 
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Jason Johns
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boisse wrote:
I've had SoE for a while now, but am now just getting it on the table. I've read the rules a few times, the FAQ and a number of other posts on rules and I'm still unclear on a few things. It's probably a simple thing, but I've missed it.

In the rules under "Play Tips" it says "It helps to understand that country counters determine how many control tokens can exist in an area. E.g. there are 4 country counters for the Ottoman Empire, which means there will never be more than 4 control tokens in that area."

What am I missing here? It'll probably be clear once we play, but right now I can't see the link.

Thanks


Turkey has only 4 tiles. This makes it difficult to gain a dominance (or whatever the term is). So, if one person gets two, he will have the most for the OE, unless he loses one of his control markers.

Also, they are tough to defeat.


boisse wrote:
I like wargames and have a small collection. Most of the group however is not into wargames. I think that this has enough other themes that it'll be OK.

I was going to ask what # of players the game is best with so thanks for that.


This game is best with 7. After that, I'd suggest 5, then 6. It is better with more AND with an odd number. This makes for a bidding war to decide the coaltion for the last lone power.
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alan beaumont
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Number crunch
iamspamus wrote:
Turkey has only 4 tiles. This makes it difficult to gain a dominance (or whatever the term is). So, if one person gets two, he will have the most for the OE, unless he loses one of his control markers.

This game is best with 7. After that, I'd suggest 5, then 6. It is better with more AND with an odd number. This makes for a bidding war to decide the coaltion for the last lone power.

Of course you only need 1 control token in Turkey if no other player has more and the 3rd place value is redundant, as it is impossible to achieve, as in the Baltic.

Having played 7 players a couple of times I am not enthusiastic. The Improvement Tiles tend to run out by the final War, leaving nothing more subtle than a brawl. This may float your boat, but it tends to magnify perceived problems with luck in combat as that is the only option going. I agree the the alliances are most fun when unbalanced, so 5 players is a great number for maximum tension in that respect.

Edited for 'oops!'
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