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Subject: Reentering Explored Gate rss

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DONALD McLeod
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We are new to Arkham Horror but enjoying it a bit. I was playing the Novelist- can't remember her name, but she has the OW ability that allows her to draw two OW cards that match her color, and choose the one to encounter. I was sucked through a gate and eventually came out and got an explored token. On my Arkham Encounter phase I found myself unable to seal the gate, and instead simply wanted to reenter the gate, hoping my ability would pay off for me. We couldn't find any rules the either forbade or permitted this. Help!
 
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.308 Jake
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Why would you want to re-enter the gate?
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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trippercook wrote:
Why would you want to re-enter the gate?


If the OW has particularly good colors (blue and green) and you get to draw two of them, you are pretty likely to get good stuff in the OW. I could see many time where re-entering the gate would be desirable, if you didn't have enough clues to seal it and there was a monster in the street that you can't evade or defeat, it could be better to re-enter the gate and try to earn some more clues or items through OW encounters instead of waiting around for the monster to be defeated or leave.
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DONALD McLeod
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That's exactly why. And seeing the character that draws two Arkham cards and chooses- again, can't remember name- making out like a bandit, I thought I would try the same using OW encounters. Question is, can you reenter a gate you have just come out of, and if so, when exactly? Seems like you could do it during the Arkham encounter phase, as that's when you're drawn through if you do NOT have an explored token. A way of rephrasing this question is, when you come out of a gate using normal tactics (not due to find gate or an OW encounter) do you HAVE to take an explored token?
 
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Freddie Foulds
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I think that you automatically get an explored token once you come out of a gate. A way to bypass is would be to leave the location and then simply re-enter it and go through the gate again. This would solve the problem as once you leave the gate location you lose your exploration counter. However, it might be difficult if there is a nasty creature sat in the nearby streets...
 
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Tristan Hall
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I see no problem at all, you just jump back through in the Arkham Encounter phase, and providing you came back on your own terms (i.e. not thrown back by an OW encounter) you even get a free evade if there's a beastie sat on the gate too.
 
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brian
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ninjadorg wrote:
I see no problem at all, you just jump back through in the Arkham Encounter phase, and providing you came back on your own terms (i.e. not thrown back by an OW encounter) you even get a free evade if there's a beastie sat on the gate too.

The free evade is for the turn you get back but your movement is used up coming back to Arkham. You also get the explored token which you can't voluntarily discard.

So your sequence would be come back in Turn A Phase 2. Acvoid monster if you want.
Turn B Phase 2, move off of the location, evade monster if any, Explored token discarded. Move back on in the same phase, evade monster again. Phase 3, get sucked back in.
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Freddie Foulds
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
ninjadorg wrote:
I see no problem at all, you just jump back through in the Arkham Encounter phase, and providing you came back on your own terms (i.e. not thrown back by an OW encounter) you even get a free evade if there's a beastie sat on the gate too.

The free evade is for the turn you get back but your movement is used up coming back to Arkham. You also get the explored token which you can't voluntarily discard.

So your sequence would be come back in Turn A Phase 2. Acvoid monster if you want.
Turn B Phase 2, move off of the location, evade monster if any, Explored token discarded. Move back on in the same phase, evade monster again. Phase 3, get sucked back in.


Yes, I think that this would be the way you'd have to do it, seeing as how you can't discard the exploration token.
 
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Tristan Hall
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Fair points. Personally, I'd say the explored token is designed to aid the investigator in showing that (s)he now has the opportunity to attempt to close or seal the gate, not that a wall has now appeared in front of the gate preventing them from going through. But for a strict reading of the rules, you can't fault the ColtsFan!

goo
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Peter Schott
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I also see no problem with reentering. Just do it (in your next movement phase - without going to the streets). It´s crazy enough
 
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brian
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pethulhu wrote:
I also see no problem with reentering. Just do it (in your next movement phase - without going to the streets). It´s crazy enough

You can houserule it this way if you want but that is not the proper way to play it.

When you have an explored token, you can't go through the gate again. You only get rid of an explored token by closing the gate or moving off the location. So I would suggest this is the part you houserule - voluntarily discarding explored tokens.

Immunity from the monster only lasts until the end of the turn you return to Arkham. So you would be in a new turn and have to face it this time. I would suggest leaving this in so you would at least need to deal with the monster once.

So the net effect is you still have all your movement points to read Tomes and such (or to increase your Sneak), you only have to face the monster once (either in Combat or evade), and save a little bit of actual play time.
 
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Peter Schott
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ColtsFan76 wrote:


So the net effect is you still have all your movement points to read Tomes and such (or to increase your Sneak), you only have to face the monster once (either in Combat or evade), and save a little bit of actual play time.

I´d say you forfeit all your remaining movement points once you enter the location with the gate, in this case at the beginning of your movement phase (after fighting or evading a gate guard, if any) - that means to me, no book reading...
 
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brian
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pethulhu wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:


So the net effect is you still have all your movement points to read Tomes and such (or to increase your Sneak), you only have to face the monster once (either in Combat or evade), and save a little bit of actual play time.

I´d say you forfeit all your remaining movement points once you enter the location with the gate, in this case at the beginning of your movement phase (after fighting or evading a gate guard, if any) - that means to me, no book reading...

I was talking about if you stayed on the same spot from Turn A (when you returned) to Turn B (the current phase) IF you wanted to houserule it that you could discard your Explored token. You aren't moving off the spot (in this scenario) so your movmeent points wouldn't have been spent.
 
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Daniel B
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

You can houserule it this way if you want but that is not the proper way to play it.

When you have an explored token, you can't go through the gate again. You only get rid of an explored token by closing the gate or moving off the location. So I would suggest this is the part you houserule - voluntarily discarding explored tokens.


In addition to ColtsFan's suggestion I would say that a "good" house rule would be:

You may voluntarily discard an explored token during a later movement phase.

turn A phase 2 - return to Arkham, add explored token, may ignore monster
turn A phase 3 - may try to close gate
turn B phase 2 - deal with monster, may discard explored token
turn B phase 3 - enter OW if you discarded the explored token
turn B phase 4 - draw OW card
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brian
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Deebs wrote:
You may voluntarily discard an explored token during a later movement phase.

turn A phase 2 - return to Arkham, add explored token, may ignore monster
turn A phase 3 - may try to close gate
turn B phase 2 - deal with monster, may discard explored token
turn B phase 3 - enter OW if you discarded the explored token
turn B phase 4 - draw OW card

Thanks, you captured exactly what I had envisioned would work while still presenting a challenge (the monster) while saving some time (discarding the explored token).
 
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Peter Schott
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Exactly
All I wanted to add was that I`d say you don´t get movement points in this case. Something like: discarding the explored gate counter is the same as discarding all your movement points (if you want to reenter the gate). No book reading...
Or is that too harsh?
 
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brian
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pethulhu wrote:
Exactly
All I wanted to add was that I`d say you don´t get movement points in this case. Something like: discarding the explored gate counter is the same as discarding all your movement points (if you want to reenter the gate). No book reading...
Or is that too harsh?

No, I think that is legit as a houserule. I just didn't understand where you were coming from and thought maybe you didn't understand where I was coming from.

If someone wanted to use movement points (because they wanted to read the King in Yellow to get clues for example), then they would have to spend another turn on the gate (i.e discard the explored token on Turn C). And that sounds about right. Just enough delay.
 
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John Anderson
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This still seems like a bad use of an investigator's time though, doesn't it? Even with the guy that can draw two OW encounters and choose one. You might get good ones, but you're wasting valuable turns.

I wish I had the time to spare to voluntarily go through an OW twice, that's all I'm saying.
 
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Christian Demers
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Hi,
for me, this thread about the explored marker seems exaggerated. For it's so simple and honestly... different of what you are doing.

There is no need for house rules because as the rules said (bolded to explain my point):

"When an investigator returns from an Other World, as described earlier, the player should place an explored marker under his investigator marker. This gives the investigator an opportunity to destroy and close the gate during the next Arkham Encounters Phase. If the investigator leaves the gate's location for any reason, the player must discard the explored marker - the investigator has missed his opportunity and must explore the gate again if he wishes to close it."


- should: not must! For me, it's just a suggestion to use the explored marker or not.
- an opportunity: Not an obligation! The investigator can choose to stay there and do nothing during his next encounters.
- any reason: For me, any reason include leaving the location by passing through the gate next to him. True, you got no movement points but you are already on location. So nothing prevent it.
- must explore the gate again: He is on his way! Take 2!

All that said, I'm not really sure it is a good strategy. Looks like a big waste of time.
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Rauli Kettunen
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Docdemers wrote:

"When an investigator returns from an Other World, as described earlier, the player should place an explored marker under his investigator marker. This gives the investigator an opportunity to destroy and close the gate during the next Arkham Encounters Phase. If the investigator leaves the gate's location for any reason, the player must discard the explored marker - the investigator has missed his opportunity and must explore the gate again if he wishes to close it."


"• If the investigator is in the second area of the Other
World, he returns to Arkham. The player must choose a
location that contains a gate to the Other World he is leaving.
After choosing such a location, he places his investigator
marker there. Then he places an “explored” marker
underneath his investigator to show that he has explored
the gate. This marker remains in play as long as the investigator
remains at the location." (p. 8)

Nothing about optional explored markers. You move back from OW, place an explored marker.
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brian
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I have to agree with Dam. "Should" is a weak word but isn't always interpreted as an "optional" word - especially given the lack of it in Dam's example.

"Opportunity" also implies that the option exists to close it but does not necessarily happen. 1) you can fail the check and 2) you can move away and lose that opportunity.

Remove those two instances, add in the clarification that Dam pointed out which has no wiggle room and the explored marker becomes part of the procedure and can only be removed by moving off the location.
 
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Freddie Foulds
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"If the location has a gate, the investigator is drawn
through the gate. He moves to the first area (the left
area) of the Other World indicated on the gate marker.

Exception: Once an investigator has entered a gate and
returned to Arkham, the player places an explored mark-
er underneath his investigator marker. While he remains
in the gate’s location, he is no longer drawn through the
gate, but may instead try to close or seal the gate(see
“Closing and Sealing Gates,” pages 16-17). If the inves-
tigator leaves the location before the gate is closed or
sealed, discard the explored marker. If the investigator
returns to the location later in the game, he will again be
drawn through the gate. He must resolve the Other
World Encounters Phase again before he can return to
the location and attempt to close or seal the gate." (p. 9)

This is from the rulebook regarding entering a location with a gate. As Dam has said, the rules suggest that there is no option - the player places the explored token under their character. The only way of getting rid of it would be to leave the location and re-enter.
 
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Christian Demers
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I can see your point about the explored marker but still, for me the explored marker is only there as a reminder to indicate that you didn't leave the location and that you can still attempt to close the gate you have already explored.

Nowhere it is written that the explored marker prevents you from reentering the gate. In fact, as I already said, the only thing I see is that you only loose the explored marker if you leave the location for any reason and leaving through the gate is a reason.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Docdemers wrote:
Nowhere it is written that the explored marker prevents you from reentering the gate.


"If the location has a gate, the investigator is drawn
through the gate."

and

"Exception: Once an investigator has entered a gate and
returned to Arkham, the player places an explored marker
underneath his investigator marker. While he remains
in the gate’s location, he is no longer drawn through the
gate, but may instead try to close or seal the gate (see
“Closing and Sealing Gates,” pages 16-17)." (p. 9)

There is nothing voluntary about entering gates in the rules. No explored marker, sucked in, explored marker, don't get sucked in. There is no middle ground.
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Freddie Foulds
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Dam the Man wrote:
Docdemers wrote:
Nowhere it is written that the explored marker prevents you from reentering the gate.


"If the location has a gate, the investigator is drawn
through the gate."

and

"Exception: Once an investigator has entered a gate and
returned to Arkham, the player places an explored marker
underneath his investigator marker. While he remains
in the gate’s location, he is no longer drawn through the
gate, but may instead try to close or seal the gate (see
“Closing and Sealing Gates,” pages 16-17)." (p. 9)

There is nothing voluntary about entering gates in the rules. No explored marker, sucked in, explored marker, don't get sucked in. There is no middle ground.


Dam, I was going to post this earlier. The rules are as you've posted - the is no option not to take the exploration marker, and once you have it you cannot voluntarily get drawn back through the gate. However, as has been discussed above, if you want to establish a house rule to change this then there is nothing stopping you from doing so cool.
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