Dan
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All right veterans, here are the questions I had after my first session of FoF. I'm greener than Kermee the Frog, so go easy.

1) 4.3.1 states visual-verbal communication requires units "a) both are under the same cover marker or b) neither one is under a cover marker." This conflicts with my understanding of 6.4 that all units on a card fire along the same PDF.

1a) I was confused about this when I had one HQ under cover with a few units and one not on the same card and wanted to shift fire away from a card where a sniper had retreated and onto a new card.

2) 6.2 "Small Arms" is both unspecific and seemingly contradictory.
Quote:
You do not keep track of small arms ammunition [of which category assault teams fall into], but you do for the A VOF units [of which category assault teams fall into...WTF??].
Do I track ammo for assault teams I've broken off of squads??

3) an enemy unit breaks LOS. During the enemy activity phase, I replace it with a PC marker--but there's one already on that card. Can there be two PC markers on a card?

4) an enemy unit is firing along its PDF and causes a casualty. When do I change its PDF to a different card? If there are two cards with equal forces, does it change its PDF after one card loses a step?

5) there's a bonus for being under cover and issuing orders. Does the staging area count for this bonus? I could argue it either way--HQ is safer, so he could issue more orders, of course if he were under cover in the field, he'd have a better idea of what needed doing.

6) casualties just pile up on a card, correct? Can they ever be completely eliminated? Do they count against the 16 steps limit on a card?

7) an enemy unit falls back. Does it retain a prior pinned marker? Does it generate a new exposed marker?

8) the rules about hills, overhead fire, and LOS have me a little baffled too. Imagine this south to north lineup: hill(village), hedgerows, woods. My troops are in the village so they should be able to see into the hedgerows and woods. There are enemy troops in the hedgerows and woods. There's nothing in the hierarchy table for the guy in the woods provided that I have LOS on him but haven't fired on him (since I'm dealing with the intervening card).

8a) is LOS reciprocal from a hill? so if I can see you from the hill, can you see me on the hill?

8b) also the overhead fire rules deal specifically with firing downhill, but say nothing of firing uphill. Is overhead fire also reciprocal? (I'm guessing no)

9) can a situation arise such that a troop package would be illegal and impossible to enter?

9a) I had a PC marker resolve such that it would put a strong point (unspotted) between two cards that were firing on each other. I remember reading their troops won't fire at each other, so how does this work?

10) another force package question: if VOF/PDF aren't placed (a patrol for instance), what does that mean? My troops have LOS, do they start firing? does the patrol fire back?

Thanks for your help. I've enjoyed playing the first scenario, but I keep making mistakes and second guessing myself. I've liked the action so far, though resolving VOF on a bunch of troops in one card can bog it down a little. I hope I'll be faster soon.
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Re: Questions after first play
By the way I absolutely got moidalized. Turns 2 & 3 both saw counterattacks on the first row. Ouch! On top of my CO drawing 1 command 3x in a row.
 
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Re: Questions after first play
I can take a crack at a few of these,

1a Shift Fire and Cease Fire affect the whole card regardless of cover. In the errata I believe.

2 I don't track ammo for Assault LATs. They only have a range of P which I take to mean they don't necessarily have automatic weapons but are using shock and awe to have the same effect. Let me see your war face !

3 Keep only the highest PC marker when you have multiple A being the highest. (errata)

4 Enemy units shift fire when there original target is gone or told to shift by the Enemy Activity Charts

5 The bonus is for being under cover I don't think any missions have cover in the staging area

6 I let casualties them pile up and don't count them against stacking. You can get points for capturing enemy casualties

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Re: Questions after first play
Quin wrote:
3 Keep only the highest PC marker when you have multiple A being the highest. (errata)


Thanks for the response! Do you place a random PC marker when a unit w/o LOS "evaporates" according to defensive hierarchy?

That leaves just a few other uncertainties. Any other takers?
 
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Ricky Gray
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Re: Questions after first play
Quote:
1) 4.3.1 states visual-verbal communication requires units "a) both are under the same cover marker or b) neither one is under a cover marker." This conflicts with my understanding of 6.4 that all units on a card fire along the same PDF.


They are required to be either under the same cover or neither under cover for command purposes. In other words, if the HQ is in a trench and one of his squads is not in there with him, that squad is out of Visual-Verbal communication and cannot be commanded (unless it happens to be carrying a radio - which is rare). The exceptions to this were pointed out by another responder - Shift Fire and Cease Fire orders supersede this rule and affect the entire card.

Quote:
1a) I was confused about this when I had one HQ under cover with a few units and one not on the same card and wanted to shift fire away from a card where a sniper had retreated and onto a new card.


Perfectly legal, and well played

Quote:
2) 6.2 "Small Arms" is both unspecific and seemingly contradictory.
Quote:
You do not keep track of small arms ammunition [of which category assault teams fall into], but you do for the A VOF units [of which category assault teams fall into...WTF??].
Do I track ammo for assault teams I've broken off of squads??


No - see 6.8 to see which weapons you need to track ammo for. Ammo is not tracked for Assault Teams

Quote:
3) an enemy unit breaks LOS. During the enemy activity phase, I replace it with a PC marker--but there's one already on that card. Can there be two PC markers on a card?


No - there will never be 2 PC markers on one card. I can't remember if that's in the last errata file or the new one that's about to go up as soon as Ben approves it

Quote:
4) an enemy unit is firing along its PDF and causes a casualty. When do I change its PDF to a different card?


Immediately after that Combat effects phase. Technically, once it has no more eligible targets in a card, the Enemy ceases fire, but will of course immediately open fire again based upon standard priorities if eligible targets exist elsewhere.

Quote:
If there are two cards with equal forces, does it change its PDF after one card loses a step?


No - that would be a Shift Fire order which the Enemy only performs via the Enemy Activity tables.

Quote:
5) there's a bonus for being under cover and issuing orders. Does the staging area count for this bonus? I could argue it either way--HQ is safer, so he could issue more orders, of course if he were under cover in the field, he'd have a better idea of what needed doing.


No, the Staging Area does not qualify as Cover.

Quote:
6) casualties just pile up on a card, correct?


Correct, unless and until you evacuate them.

Quote:
Can they ever be completely eliminated?


No. They either stay on map, or are evacuated via a Casualty Collection Point or EVAC helo.

Quote:
Do they count against the 16 steps limit on a card?


Yes - notice that they have a one-step 'pip' on them.

Quote:
7) an enemy unit falls back. Does it retain a prior pinned marker? Does it generate a new exposed marker?


Yes and yes.

Quote:
8) the rules about hills, overhead fire, and LOS have me a little baffled too. Imagine this south to north lineup: hill(village), hedgerows, woods. My troops are in the village so they should be able to see into the hedgerows and woods. There are enemy troops in the hedgerows and woods. There's nothing in the hierarchy table for the guy in the woods provided that I have LOS on him but haven't fired on him (since I'm dealing with the intervening card).

8a) is LOS reciprocal from a hill? so if I can see you from the hill, can you see me on the hill?


Yes, that LOS is reciprocal. There is only one case where LOS in not reciprocal in this game. You cannot see THROUGH or OUT OF smoke. However, you can see INTO it. So, if you're IN smoke, you're blind, except that you can fire (see) in your own card

Quote:
8b) also the overhead fire rules deal specifically with firing downhill, but say nothing of firing uphill. Is overhead fire also reciprocal? (I'm guessing no)


Good question. A strict reading of the rules says your hunch is correct, however. Only downhill (making note to self to confirm with designer...)

Quote:
9) can a situation arise such that a troop package would be illegal and impossible to enter?


Yes. In cases like this, simply draw for another package. In the rare case that NO package would be legal in a particular circumstance, then discard the contact entirely.

Quote:
9a) I had a PC marker resolve such that it would put a strong point (unspotted) between two cards that were firing on each other. I remember reading their troops won't fire at each other, so how does this work?


Draw for a different placement.

Quote:
10) another force package question: if VOF/PDF aren't placed (a patrol for instance), what does that mean? My troops have LOS, do they start firing? does the patrol fire back?


Those package results generally represent an enemy unit on the move. So, instead of YOU being the one moving and exposed and getting shot up from out of nowhere, those package results turn the tables a bit . When you get one of those, you will open fire at them, but they will NOT return fire until the turn after they appear (after combat is resolved against them in the ensuing Combat Effects phase).

Hope all this helps!

Ricky
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Re: Questions after first play
Awesome work, Ricky. Thanks so much.
 
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Re: Questions after first play
No problem at all, Daniel. Anytime.

Ricky
 
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Re: Questions after first play
[edit: Rick P came in here and finished his answer before I could. Dang.]

oeolycus wrote:
All right veterans, here are the questions I had after my first session of FoF. I'm greener than Kermee the Frog, so go easy.

1) 4.3.1 states visual-verbal communication requires units "a) both are under the same cover marker or b) neither one is under a cover marker." This conflicts with my understanding of 6.4 that all units on a card fire along the same PDF.


Units on the same card fire along the same PDF and new units entering the card will "open fire" along the same PDF. In addition, orders to shift fire and cease fire affect the whole card, and pyrotechnic orders will be followed by everyone who can see them. Other orders, however must be given with some method of communication. Generally the rule about visual/verbal communication applies to units which are under cover who are not pinned. If a leader is under one cover marker, they can't communicate with the units under the other cover marker.

Quote:
1a) I was confused about this when I had one HQ under cover with a few units and one not on the same card and wanted to shift fire away from a card where a sniper had retreated and onto a new card.


All units on the same card may shift fire at the order of a HQ or CO staff on the same card. Units on different cards would have to be signalled by pyro, or later, with Advanced Hand Radios, by radio communication. Since I'm assuming you're talking about mission 1 in WWII.

Read 4.2.4j carefully - it specifies "All occupants of a card".


Quote:
2) 6.2 "Small Arms" is both unspecific and seemingly contradictory.
Quote:
You do not keep track of small arms ammunition [of which category assault teams fall into], but you do for the A VOF units [of which category assault teams fall into...WTF??].
Do I track ammo for assault teams I've broken off of squads??


Quote:
Rifles, sub machineguns and magazine fed light machineguns produce
a Small Arms (S) VOF. Some such units may instead produce
an Automatic Weapons (A) VOF, but at Point Blank Range only.
You do not keep track of small arms ammunition, but you do for the
A VOF units (see MG Ammo in 6.8.1.).


I think the last part of the last sentence is unintentionally confusing and refers to machinegun type units (as opposed to A VOF assault teams). It should not have been included in that paragraph, in my opinion.

Quote:
3) an enemy unit breaks LOS. During the enemy activity phase, I replace it with a PC marker--but there's one already on that card. Can there be two PC markers on a card?


Yes, there can be two PC markers on a card.

9.1.5 wrote:
Resolve multiple PC Markers in alphabetical order.
Resolve multiple markers of the same letter in random order.


also:

9.1.2, errata clarification wrote:
If two PC markers end up on a card due to some event (such as a Counterattack), remove the lower letter (A is highest).


Quote:
4) an enemy unit is firing along its PDF and causes a casualty. When do I change its PDF to a different card? If there are two cards with equal forces, does it change its PDF after one card loses a step?


I'm trying to find a really good summary for how/when to check VOF replacement. It's around here somewhere.

Quote:
5) there's a bonus for being under cover and issuing orders. Does the staging area count for this bonus? I could argue it either way--HQ is safer, so he could issue more orders, of course if he were under cover in the field, he'd have a better idea of what needed doing.


I don't think so.

Quote:
6) casualties just pile up on a card, correct? Can they ever be completely eliminated? Do they count against the 16 steps limit on a card?


They do not count for stacking under cover (5.2.3 errata clarification). I would guess that they do not count for stacking in general. Good question.

Quote:
7) an enemy unit falls back. Does it retain a prior pinned marker? Does it generate a new exposed marker?


It loses its pinned marker at the beginning of the next combat phase.

3.7.1. errata clarification wrote:
For any card without a VOF Marker, remove any Pinned Markers from units, just like when a MISS occurs when under fire (6.9.1). This is done at the beginning of any subsequent
Combat Effects phase in which the unit is not subject to a VOF
marker.


Quote:
8) the rules about hills, overhead fire, and LOS have me a little baffled too. Imagine this south to north lineup: hill(village), hedgerows, woods. My troops are in the village so they should be able to see into the hedgerows and woods. There are enemy troops in the hedgerows and woods. There's nothing in the hierarchy table for the guy in the woods provided that I have LOS on him but haven't fired on him (since I'm dealing with the intervening card).


Enemy units will not fire through their own units. If you can't find a matching/appropriate action in the hierarchy table, the unit does nothing. In this case, the unit has LOS but cannot open fire, so it does nothing, as far as I can tell.

Quote:
8a) is LOS reciprocal from a hill? so if I can see you from the hill, can you see me on the hill?


Yes. To the best of my knowledge, the only time LOS is not reciprocal is in this situation:

8.3 errata clarification wrote:
For LOS purposes, Smoke includes HC Smoke, WP Smoke, and Incoming! VOF markers. LOS can be traced INTO Smoke, but it CANNOT be traced OUT OF or THROUGH Smoke. Note that this does create a rare instance where LOS is not reciprocal.


Quote:
8b) also the overhead fire rules deal specifically with firing downhill, but say nothing of firing uphill. Is overhead fire also reciprocal? (I'm guessing no)


Yes, if the unit is eligible to do it.

6.4.3 Errata clarification wrote:
6.4.3 (Clarification):
This works in reverse, too. That is, a tripod-mounted MG can
fire from a level 1 card over a friendly unit on an adjacent level
1 card if the target is at a higher elevation.


Quote:
9) can a situation arise such that a troop package would be illegal and impossible to enter?


Yes, but they should be rare.

9.2 errata clarification wrote:
Important: you can NEVER place an enemy package on a card
that already contains enemy units (Exception: when you receive
a ‘+’ result, those units are placed together.). When placed,
enemy units will always target the unit that triggered their
placement (Exception: in Vietnam missions ONLY, enemy units
CAN be generated on the card of US Units that did NOT trigger
them, thus causing them to open fire on that card rather than the
unit that triggered them. This represents the extensive use of
tunneling by the enemy in Vietnam). If the placement location
drawn does not legally allow the enemy unit to target the
triggering US unit, redraw for a different placement. Continue
drawing until the above requirement is met. If that package
cannot legally be placed to comply with this, redraw for a
different package. If NO available package could legally
comply, then discard the contact entirely.


Quote:
9a) I had a PC marker resolve such that it would put a strong point (unspotted) between two cards that were firing on each other. I remember reading their troops won't fire at each other, so how does this work?


9.2.2 errata clarification wrote:
An enemy package may appear on a card containing US units if
called for by the Placement Tables. You cannot place a package
on a card where the card is already along the PDF of another
enemy unit.


Quote:
10) another force package question: if VOF/PDF aren't placed (a patrol for instance), what does that mean? My troops have LOS, do they start firing? does the patrol fire back?


Yes, they start firing. No, the enemy unit does not fire until next turn.
 
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Re: Questions after first play
Thanks. It's interesting to see there are different interpretations here already.
 
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Re: Questions after first play
Quote:
Yes, there can be two PC markers on a card.


Not really. In the case of counterattack, one is removed (thus there will only be one there). In the case that the OP mentioned, the errata specifies that a PC will not be placed. Also, "Resolve multiple PC Markers in alphabetical order" and "Resolve multiple markers of the same letter in random order" make no mention of PCs being on the same card.

Quote:
It loses its pinned marker at the beginning of the next combat phase.


Not necessarily. They'll only lose it if they're no longer under a VOF.

Just to make sure we're all clear

Thanks,
Ricky
 
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Re: Questions after first play
Preacher wrote:
Quote:
Yes, there can be two PC markers on a card.


Not really. In the case of counterattack, one is removed (thus there will only be one there). In the case that the OP mentioned, the errata specifies that a PC will not be placed. Also, "Resolve multiple PC Markers in alphabetical order" and "Resolve multiple markers of the same letter in random order" make no mention of PCs being on the same card.


Whoops. Well, that makes my life easier. I guess reading those two last sentences I thought they might apply to multiple contacts being on the same card.

Quote:
Quote:
It loses its pinned marker at the beginning of the next combat phase.


Not necessarily. They'll only lose it if they're no longer under a VOF.


Ah, sorry - I knew that but failed to mention it.
 
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