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Subject: Balancing Those All-Powerful Characters rss

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Brian Mc Cabe
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I wasn't using Patrice or Mandy's special abilities at all, until I played a few rounds with the big-box expansions.

The way I was playing, they were just a generic character without being able to do anything special to negate the power of the AO.

With Mandy, I put four Yellow Sign tokens on her skill card, just for something to use and somewhere to put them. Once per game, each character, including her, can reroll one skill check. I just put the token on their character sheet to remember.

Patrice's powers are out of this world. I allow her to give one clue token per game to each other investigator. Today, Trish got drawn into Leng with four tokens. This might skew the game if it happens three times, but I don't feel it will really have a huge impact and will keep the game close.

Also, I don't intentionally enter an OW with four tokens in order to take advantage of her ability, which I did the first time I played, causing me to abandon her power altogether.

If she passes her personal story or the doom track reaches nine, I allow her three clue tokens and not five. It might not be a bad idea to forget about giving her tokens at all when the track reaches nine, since she gets so many in other ways.

Instead of allowing her a clue token with every open gate, I make it every other gate, starting with the second. The most she'll get this way is six, which is still pretty good, but not a game breaker. Today, she got eight, three for doom reaching nine and five for it reaching eleven of twelve, Nyarlathotep.

When using Hypnos as the Guardian, I start placing the extra clues when the doom track reaches half way, rounding up.

Does anybody else try something similar for these or any of the other
characters?

Brian
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Where are Daisy and to a slightly lesser extent, Wendy?

One thing I've read people apply to Patrice was to allow others to use her Clues for skill checks only, not to pay for seals. As for her power being "out of this world", Erich Zann was mentioned over on the FFG forums .
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Brian Mc Cabe
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I guess I don't know enough about Daisy's power to see it as overpowered. I usually just grab a Shrivelling spell so she can fight.

Wendy is nice to have, since she can't get trapped in a location. She still has to fight, though, if a monster is in a location guarding a gate or a monster appears, so it's still a crapshoot with her.

Do you do anything special with them or some of the others to lessen their powers?

Brian
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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apatheticexecutioner wrote:
I guess I don't know enough about Daisy's power to see it as overpowered. I usually just grab a Shrivelling spell so she can fight.


Casting 2 Alchemical Process, 2 Voice of Ra and 2 Shrivelling each turn for 0 Sanity cost is okay? People who have "cracked" the Daisy-code, always pick Alchemical Process first (if Kate Winthrop is in the game and you're not using IH, Arcane Insight, call GG and re-set with a new GOO and investigators), then spam that forever. If Ashcan Pete is in the game, have him re-buy Livre and get another Alchemical Process, then buy, buy, buy. If you get her Necronomicon zombie ...

I think this quote from the FFG forums sums her up pretty good:

"Daisy can be just about anything she wants to be!"
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Gareth Bull
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...to a minimum of 0.

That's what I read on the Harvey Walters Story card with regards to his Sanity casting cost reduction. If I saw the same ending with Daisy I'd say it's allowed, but however it does not read 'to a minimum of 0' so I'd rule it out & only allow it for use with spells with a sanity cost above one.

It's just the old MTG CCG, general ruling kicking in. If there was ever a dispute in the game group we would look through to original and understood rulings & the specific wording of that given ability. Very annoying having different wordings for what looks like essentially a same card ability, but there you have it. Unless FFG said otherwise in an official FAQ, I'd always believe Daisy cannot reduce the cost to a minimum of 0 by use of Iron Will alone, and that's simply due to no 'minimum of 0' text; my first exposure to the zero sanity spell cost ability.

'hehe'
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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5parky mo moos wrote:
...to a minimum of 0.

That's what I read on the Harvey Walters Story card with regards to his Sanity casting cost reduction. If I saw the same ending with Daisy I'd say it's allowed, but however it does not read 'to a minimum of 0' so I'd rule it out & only allow it for use with spells with a sanity cost above one.


Minimum of 0 is probably there so Harvey can't claim more Sanity from casting 0-cost spells. Dexter Drake's PS is the same way, but his "to a minimum of 0" is in parenthesis.

Daisy ALWAYS reduces Sanity cost by 1. Her Iron Will could do with "to a minimum of 0" at the end, but always is always. Of course, she could also do with once a turn or something like that... yuk
 
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Peter Maylott
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5parky mo moos wrote:
...to a minimum of 0.

That's what I read on the Harvey Walters Story card with regards to his Sanity casting cost reduction. If I saw the same ending with Daisy I'd say it's allowed, but however it does not read 'to a minimum of 0' so I'd rule it out & only allow it for use with spells with a sanity cost above one.


Having played MTG for many years has spoiled me now that I am getting into board games. Magic players compete for thousands of dollars forcing the rules to be crystal clear, in fact to the letter clear.

Board games just do not get so precise. Daisy is from an earlier expansion, so maybe they never got around to that wording. Your interpretation for applying Iron Will to spells with sanity cost above one means you read the ability as 'to a minimum of 1' which I consider harder to justify.

I would not be surprised the 'to a minimum of 0' came in the Innsmouth Expansion personal stories to counteract the more likely confusion of "Now we reduce the sanity cost of this spell from 0 to -1 which would mean I gain a sanity each time I cast it."
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