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Subject: Clarification of this game's weight (3.5) rss

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Kevin Goodman
Canada
Ottawa
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I was interested in getting this game but then I noticed its weight rating was 3.5. Lately, I've been leaning towards under 3 type games.

I should clarify that for me, weight = volume of rules to digest. I'm totally ok with brain burners. My short term memory is just crappy enough that fewer rules = more fun for me.

Is this game really so heavy?
 
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Jon
United States
Redmond
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I think this game is heavier than average. The Valley Games rule book is 13 pages long.

The majority of the game is fairly simple.

The most fidgity rules are in the terrain effects on combat. Fortunately, those all appear on a single page handout.

There are a number of detailed rules on border cases. The rules read like the cannonization of years of clairifications and FAQs.

Edit: typo.
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Eric Brosius
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Titan has a fairly extensive rule volume. One reason for this is the inclusion of both Master Board and Battle Board play. It's by no means an easy game to play. On the other hand, it's a terrific game that fills a niche no other game fills.
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Ben Foy
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Eric Brosius wrote:
Titan has a fairly extensive rule volume. One reason for this is the inclusion of both Master Board and Battle Board play. It's by no means an easy game to play. On the other hand, it's a terrific game that fills a niche no other game fills.


If you learn Titan, you will realize:

All the games you thought were heavy, aren't very heavy.
 
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Todd Pytel
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You own a bunch of wargames, but don't have any rated - it would help to know what you think of those. Titan definitely has more rules and less concern for design elegance than any Euros you have. It's an old-school AH game where adding in a few more table lookups and a couple more exceptions and special cases wasn't seen as something to be avoided. Plus it's very long and unforgiving. Overall, it's quite a lot heavier than any of the games you've rated.
 
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Bruno Wolff
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tppytel wrote:
You own a bunch of wargames, but don't have any rated - it would help to know what you think of those. Titan definitely has more rules and less concern for design elegance than any Euros you have. It's an old-school AH game where adding in a few more table lookups and a couple more exceptions and special cases wasn't seen as something to be avoided. Plus it's very long and unforgiving. Overall, it's quite a lot heavier than any of the games you've rated.


It really wasn't like any other AH games, so I don't think calling it an old school AH game is a very good way to describe the game.

The strike number table really isn't necessary and the strike number calculation can be pretty easily explained.

There are a number of quirky terrain rules.

There are some other odd things that don't typically occur in games.

Titan was also developed over a long period of time and I think was better play tested (by the time of the AH release) than the vast majority games.

Overall the complexity of the rules isn't that high. Many AH games had more complex rule sets. Magic Realm and ASL are classic examples. But I think many of the normal wargames from that period also had more complex rules.

And even some of the current Eurogames can be viewed as having more complex rules. For example Race for the Galaxy has a lot of data described on the cards. While you can play the game looking at only the cards in your hand, to play well you really need to be aware of all of the cards in the game.
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Todd Pytel
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brunowolff wrote:
It really wasn't like any other AH games, so I don't think calling it an old school AH game is a very good way to describe the game.

I agree Titan is unique among old AH titles, but as a reference point relative to current game design I think my description is quite accurate. Titan would never be designed today. Very little of it makes any effort to be smooth and playable. The Recruiting relationships (what recruits where, what you need to recruit other creatures) are central to the game and demand constant reference until you've played quite a lot. There's the Terrain Table, as you mention. There are lots of little rules that are easy to forget (defender recruitment, angel summonning, etc.). The map is extremely unintuitive. You're constantly fiddling with stacks. And then there's the game length and player elimination issues. My point relative to wargames was not that Titan is like them, but that Titan, like wargames, doesn't particularly concern itself with having elegant, easy-to-remember, quick-to-learn rules. It's designed for strategy first and ease-of-use a distant second.

Don't get me wrong - I admire Titan very much. I think it's a great game, though one that I won't be able to play very often. But compared to modern titles, you can feel right away that it was designed in 1980.
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