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Subject: Looping planes? rss

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James Megee
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I am starting to look into buying this game or one of the 3 games, and was just wondering, Can the planes LOOP? Is there a card for that? Is it in one of the "expansion" decks?

Jim
 
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Kevin Duke
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All of the planes, except the 2 seaters, can "loop," but it not just one card. In game terms, there is an "Immelmann turn," which requires a straight card, the half loop (turn around) (first half of your loop) and then another straight. You could follow the second straight card with another Immelmann (followed by a 3rd straight) and complete your "loop."
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David Gibbs
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You are confusing the modern aerobatic "Immelman turn" (which is basically a half-loop with a twist) with the historic maneuver which was quite different, and did not involve the half-loop, so you would not get an approximation of a loop by putting the two together.
 
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James Megee
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Thanks, I suppose I will understand it better after I pick up a copy of the game (Soon). However, my question was answered in the first post. There isn't a "specific" LOOP card. Then again, I am not too familiar with the aerodynamics of the WWI planes, but "how many" in those days could be flying level and just pull up into a loop? Probably not many if any at all. But, they more likely had to DIVE first, and then pull up into a loop. Either way, thanks!!

Jim
 
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Jeff Yeackle
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Exactly, for an upper loop a dive was usually needed to prevent a stall. If you were doing a downward loop though, the dive part is included for free.

There's sadly no natural loop maneuver in the game without using a split-s + Immelmann maneuver. While the end results are the same, they're not a true loop in the traditional sense. I could see the inclusion of cards for it adding a bit more fun... especially since it'll make it harder to predict if the person is doing a loop or an Immelmann or Split-S. A 'Loop Booster' pack would be fairly easy to put together if there was demand, much like how the ascend and descend cards were added in the 3rd expansion for previous decks which lacked them. Playing with elevation would be interesting too since if memory serves a downward loop eats up more elevation than a Split-S would.
 
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Kevin Duke
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Quote:
You are confusing the modern aerobatic "Immelman turn" (which is basically a half-loop with a twist) with the historic maneuver which was quite different


If you're talking to me, I'm not confusing a damned thing. (Not even how to spell the name.)

I gave the OP the closest answer that the game offers for his question, using the terms that the game uses.

And given the way the game works, having a single card for an entire loop would be way out of the time/space pattern that they have set up.

They might could allow back-to-back Immelmann card plays, or something like that, to create a much tighter maneuver, but there's nothing in the game like 1 card to accomplish all those things.
 
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James Megee
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kduke wrote:
"...but there's nothing in the game like 1 card to accomplish all those things."


Yes, this is basically what I meant in my original post by "can the planes LOOP". A "Single" card.

Jim
 
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David Gibbs
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kduke wrote:
Quote:
You are confusing the modern aerobatic "Immelman turn" (which is basically a half-loop with a twist) with the historic maneuver which was quite different


If you're talking to me, I'm not confusing a damned thing. (Not even how to spell the name.)

I gave the OP the closest answer that the game offers for his question, using the terms that the game uses.

They might could allow back-to-back Immelmann card plays, or something like that, to create a much tighter maneuver, but there's nothing in the game like 1 card to accomplish all those things.


And what I'm saying is that the WW I "Immelman turn" is not the first half of a loop, so putting them back-to-back would not give the effect of a loop.

The WWI era Immelman Turn was a nose-up into a stall, then (generally) yaw the plane to drop the nose, and effectively retrace the same path back downwards, but facing the other way.

Putting them back to back would, therefor, not give a loop, but give more of the effect of a skateboarder in a half-pipe.



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Jeff Yeackle
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dagibbs wrote:
And what I'm saying is that the WW I "Immelman turn" is not the first half of a loop, so putting them back-to-back would not give the effect of a loop.


That's nice, but in game terms, since using the optional rules would cause the elevation to be increased after performing the Immelmann Turn it's most likely referring to the modern usage which is an upward half loop, not the historical one you describe since that one would put you back at an elevation similar to the one you started at.

Kevin is only giving an answer using the parameters of the game.

Edit: Also just recalled and confirmed that the Split-S in the instructions is described as the opposite of the Immelmann. Despite the question of whether these turns were possible with all the aircraft involved, well, the game is only known for being lots of fun, not historically accurate.
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David Gibbs
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Ah, I hadn't realized that the game's definition of an Immelman Turn was the modern one, rather than the one used during that time period. Oops.
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James Megee
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To be honest... I never knew there was an original OR a new version of the Immelmann turn. modest I Did manage to already know that there was a pilot named Immelmann.
Now that this has been brought up... I started searching this out. This may be of interest to you guys... and gals (if any are reading this)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immelmann_turn

It shows examples of BOTH old and new Immelmann turns. I found it VERY interesting too!

Jim

Edit reasons were the external pics didn't work
 
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Kevin Duke
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The article tells you what David was talking about, and the 'interrupted loop' which is what the game calls an Immelmann.
 
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Kevin Duke
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The article tells you what David was talking about, and the 'interrupted loop' which is what the game calls an Immelmann.
 
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Mick Bear
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It's easy enough to differentiate between the classic, WWI maneuver, and the aerobatic maneuver. For the WWI version, simply do not add a climb counter when using altitude rules. If altutude rules are not being used, there is no need to differentiate

Also, I'm not 100% sure what the official definition of a Split S is, but among R/C aircraft pilots, a Split S is two consecutive Immelmanns, resulting in straight and level flight, along the origonal heading, at higher altitude, while the "half roll to inverted half loop" that the game calls a Split S is refered to as an "Inverted Immelmann". That said, R/C pilots are often an informal bunch, and not opposed to re-defining maneuvers, many of which actuall aircraft are incapable of performing due to either power to weight ratios of excessive G forces


Dent.
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Andrea Angiolino
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Well here it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_S





 
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Mick Bear
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*Nods*

I had faith you knew what you were talking about. Like I mentioned, the R/C crowd I fly with is pretty informal. My brother and I have a lexicon of terms we use amoung ourselves that even other R/C pilots don't understand.


Dent.
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