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Dominion: Intrigue» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Am I missing something? rss

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Phil Barker
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There's some things in Dominion I don't get (nor do anyone else in my group). Generally withy Dominion this means we're overlooking something. I wondered if that was the case here.

Courtyard - Surely this is a bit strong for a 2? I mean, the Moat is not a great card when there's no attacking, and this has the same raw card advantage as the Moat, it's true. On the other hand this digs further than Moat AND engineers your next turn. I really think this should be a 3. (My friends think it should be a 4 like Smithy, but I think Smithy is overcosted a bit.)

Coppersmith - Isn't this just worse than Bridge? Of course sometimes Bridge won't be in the game, or maybe you have some niche strategy like Whishing Well-Coppersmith, but in terms of what it does in and of itself, it seems to be strictly inferior to Bridge. Isn't it?

Conspirator - This just seems bad. Really bad. I understand how it fits into a chain deck; how it's meant to be used and the benefits it can give make perfect sense to me. But at 4, I can't imagine it EVER being the right purchase unless you have a very restricted choice (lots of piles gone, say.)

As I say, there's probably something eluding me, but I'm interested to see what, if so.
 
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the scrub
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The neat thing about the open-ended system of Dominion et al. is that cards that seem underpowered now have the potential to pick up with later expansion.

I agree with Courtyard but most of the time it doesn't seem to be a problem as you rarely have just 2 to spend. Coppersmith is sturdier in the beginning with the potential to net you a quick gold or two early. Conspirator is combolicious but only in the right circumstance, I agree.
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Phil Barker
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Heheh, I just realised that it was all the Intrigue cards beginning with C. How odd!
 
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Drew Spencer
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Eiphel wrote:
Courtyard - Surely this is a bit strong for a 2? I mean, the Moat is not a great card when there's no attacking, and this has the same raw card advantage as the Moat, it's true. On the other hand this digs further than Moat AND engineers your next turn. I really think this should be a 3. (My friends think it should be a 4 like Smithy, but I think Smithy is overcosted a bit.)


Courtyard is better than a Smithy if you end up with an excess of coins (being able to put on top of your deck for next turn) or if it's your last action and you have another action card or draw one with the Courtyard and you will be able to use the action card next turn (being able to put it on top for next turn). In all other cases its worse than a Smithy. It's power is somewhere between Smithy and Moat, which would make 2 coins about right since it lacks the Reaction ability of the Moat.

Eiphel wrote:
Coppersmith - Isn't this just worse than Bridge? Of course sometimes Bridge won't be in the game, or maybe you have some niche strategy like Whishing Well-Coppersmith, but in terms of what it does in and of itself, it seems to be strictly inferior to Bridge. Isn't it?


The trick is to draw lots of cards and then play Coppersmith or chain them. This isn't substantially harder than chaining Bridges, and I'm tempted to say Bridge is slightly better because of its usefulness with extra buys, but they're comparable.

Eiphel wrote:
Conspirator - This just seems bad. Really bad. I understand how it fits into a chain deck; how it's meant to be used and the benefits it can give make perfect sense to me. But at 4, I can't imagine it EVER being the right purchase unless you have a very restricted choice (lots of piles gone, say.)


If you can meet the prerequisite for chaining them, a Conspirator is like a Market that substitutes a buy for a coin, which is a massive improvement on the Market. Even if you can't, 2 coins is not terrible. I'm actually of the opinion that Conspirator is one of the most useful cards out there, and I've rocked my opponents' worlds with them several times.
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Chris Broggi
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I just recently won a game by a landslide with the Conspirator. I used a Chapel to thin my deck, Cellars to get the extra actions needed and bypass provinces, and Conspirators to buy a province each turn. Conspirator is one of my favorite cards in Intrigue.

I've also seen Coppersmiths do well. A coppersmith and 4 coppers is a province. A coppersmith and 3 is a gold. In that way, it's better than a bridge. It is good in the beginning of the game when all you have is copper.
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Phil Barker
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Oh duh! For some reason I thought that the Bridge would somehow reduce the cost by one for each money in your hand (even though that's not how I've used it). I dunno what I was thinking there. In my defense, I have been sleep deprived these past few, Intrigue-filled, days. I think I get the Courtyard now, too. Still not sold on Conspirator, though.
 
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Rob Speer
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About Smithy being over-costed at 4:

That can't be true. Smithy is a viable strategy on its own in many games. (You just buy money, victory, and a small number of Smithies. I believe the strategy is called "Grand Smithy".) If Smithy were to cost 3, then Grand Smithy would come up in even more games, and Smithy would be an obvious buy for everyone at the beginning of most games.
 
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David desJardins
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rspeer wrote:
I believe the strategy is called "Grand Smithy".


Who chooses the names for the strategies?
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Donald X.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
rspeer wrote:
I believe the strategy is called "Grand Smithy".


Who chooses the names for the strategies?

John Vogel named that one.
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Matt Dickinson
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I don't think much of the Coppersmith either. It needs some other bonus (like +1 Action) to be worth the cost. Sure, the first time you play it, you might get a Province, but it gets weaker as the game progresses. I suppose if you buy additional Coppers whenever you can, it might be useful for the entire game, but I'm not sure. Also, in a mixed deck with Labs and/or Throne Rooms, it would probably be more powerful.

The Conspirator is a weaker, more expensive Woodcutter, unless you play two action cards first, and then you only get another card and action. I just don't think it's worth the effort to get such a weak payoff.
 
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Ted Vessenes
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The Courtyard is extremely strong, but keep this in mind: most people overvalue terminal actions (those without +1/2 actions). The best way to make a good deck bad is to keep buying terminal actions and then draw two of them together. When you buy a Courtyard, you are making things like Bridges and Torturers worse, unless you forgo cash purchases to buy action support cards like Villages.

On the subject of Bridge and Coppersmith, I will note that they serve different functions. The bridge gets you 3 money if you buy two cards. Three copper and a Bridge lets you buy two silver whereas three copper and a coppersmith lets you buy a gold. I'd argue the latter purchase is better.

That said, Bridge is generally the more flexible card. It's less likely to be bad in the late game, and when selecting what terminal actions will go into your deck, it's important to pick cards that are useful at all stages (or at least plan for a way to trash or upgrade them).
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Charlie Bink
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Labratorys + Conspiritors = win.
 
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Steve McClure
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rspeer wrote:
About Smithy being over-costed at 4:

That can't be true. Smithy is a viable strategy on its own in many games. (You just buy money, victory, and a small number of Smithies. I believe the strategy is called "Grand Smithy".) If Smithy were to cost 3, then Grand Smithy would come up in even more games, and Smithy would be an obvious buy for everyone at the beginning of most games.


I agree with Smithy being a powerful card. Then when I see that a Courtyard costs two, and gives you essentially the same benefit...plus something. The ability to, as the OP stated, engineer your next hand, just puts this over the top.

You drew three coin...well place one copper/extra coin, or less optimally that estate or province from your original hand back on your deck. You drew another courtyard/action card...well put back on your deck. You are queued up for your next hand.

I've only had the game a week, and my wife is still beating me more often than not, but Courtyard is an early favored card for me. I really like it.
 
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Brandon Richards
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Courtyard does have some drawbacks as well.

1) Courtyard/Throne Room is not nearly as potent as Smithy/Throne Room.

2) It is very hard to play a Courtyard/Village strategy (or other plus one draw card) because you are putting either a dead card back on top to redraw with the Village, or not drawing enough cards with the Smithy.

But on the whole, I like the Courtyard for differing reasons than the Smithy. Both have their place and should be used differently.
 
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