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Subject: Nurgle--cheap warriors? rss

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Steve Hope
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So knowing that there are typos on the player cards for Slaanesh and Khorne, is there also one for Nurgle? Or are his warriors really cheaper than everyone else's?
 
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Rich P
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I think they should be cheaper. Doesn't it mention that somewhere in the rules, something about Nurgle's advantage being many cheap figures? But, really, with this game, who knows? They've made such a mess over the rules.
 
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brian
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There is no mess of the rules - only the examples being inconsistent with the printed cards.

So I guess we can all be skeptical and doubt everything printed in this game or we can take it at face value that each of the figure types are slightly different for each of the chaos gods. In that case, Nurgle's warriors are summoned for 1 Power Point.

Each of the other warriors cost 2 but either have an attack of 2 dice or a defense of 2 hits. The Plaguebearers have neither so logically should be cheaper at 1 Power Point.
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Steve Hope
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Fair point. We've only played the one game, and the striking cost differential of Nurgle's guys made it easy for Nurgle to defend cultists and fuelled a runaway victory. I figured I'd ask in case I'd missed something.

I'm a bit worried about the Khorne rule correction/clarification--2 figures is a lot! But I'm excited to play a bit more and see how things go...
 
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brian
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I am still seeing Tzeentch and Slaanesh win most often with the corrected player cards. I have never seena Nurgle victory.

We played a 4-player game last night where a new Slaanesh won but Nurgle (me) tied in VPs and we had to settle the tie with the threat dial.

Khorne was played by my wife who made a couple mistakes early on. I haven't run Khorne in a real 4-player game yet but think I could make him be very effective in play under the 2+ errata. I am convinced that he needs to be very aggressive in the first rounds to guarantee that he moves his dial at least once in the first couple rounds. I think you do that by getting the Bloodthirster and two Bloodletters out in round one. If you can stall a bit to see where everyone is going by playing Blood Frenzy, even better. But you have a fairly good idea of who is going after what based on what drives their dials. Your goal should be to get to the 3rd advancement so you can get your Bloodsworn upgrade and get more battle dice on the field.
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Shawn
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FFG kind of did mess up the rules nicely. I mean the only place the rules for dial-advancement are outlined is on the player mats, and 2 of them are wrong.

Dial advancement conditions should have at least been printed in the rule book as well(and having to slog threw the example text does not count) Dial advancement is a fundamental part of the game, and rules as presented have been said to be incorrect. They REALLY need to hire better editors, or fix that process in production.

I understand FFG is not the only company guilty of such malcontent with their rules. I love fantasy flight and their games, i just get a bit
neurotic about imperfections in ones i enjoy.

/rant off
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Shawn
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
...I think you do that by getting the Bloodthirster and two Bloodletters out in round one. If you can stall a bit to see where everyone is going by playing Blood Frenzy, even better. But you have a fairly good idea of who is going after what based on what drives their dials. Your goal should be to get to the 3rd advancement so you can get your Bloodsworn upgrade and get more battle dice on the field.


That was my thought about Khorne as well. Get those cultist upgraded EARLY.
 
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brian
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boris317 wrote:
FFG kind of did mess up the rules nicely. I mean the only place the rules for dial-advancement are outlined is on the player mats, and 2 of them are wrong.

Dial advancement conditions should have at least been printed in the rule book as well(and having to slog threw the example text does not count) Dial advancement is a fundamental part of the game, and rules as presented have been said to be incorrect. They REALLY need to hire better editors, or fix that process in production.

I understand FFG is not the only company guilty of such malcontent with their rules. I love fantasy flight and their games, i just get a bit
neurotic about imperfections in ones i enjoy.

/rant off

Rules are easily fixed by issuing a PDF of the updated sections or an FAQ. I agree, it trips my OCD up to know that there is an error on an actual game component. Simple editing could have caught it.

But the reality of it is a rather simple fix. You just change "one" to "two" on two cards. Everything else is there. There is no fundamental misunderstanding of the mechanics. It is just the quantitiy of what is required and where that was inconsistent with the examples no less (which are supposed to the be the bottom of the rules resolution chain).

Hopefully we will have a clear FAQ issued this week and we can get this all behind us and start enjoying this great game fully once again.
 
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Mark Bigney
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

Rules are easily fixed by issuing a PDF of the updated sections or an FAQ. I agree, it trips my OCD up to know that there is an error on an actual game component. Simple editing could have caught it.

But the reality of it is a rather simple fix.


I don't think it would be OCD to ask that corrected versions of the player mats be available to people who bought 1st printing copies.
I also think it is completely unacceptable that there has been no official errata published on FFG's website--it has a significant impact on the game. That fact that you, personally, are the chief source on info on the internet regarding this major game difference is absurd.
So, thanks.

That said, I really like the game.
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Edward Nickson
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In my first game on Sunday, we also had a tie for victory points. Except it was between Nurgle and Tzeentch with Tzeentch claiming victory through dial advancement. Game end was triggered through 5 ruined areas. We only played with the +2 for Slaanesh and not the +2 for Korne.

Strangely enough, Nurgle would have won with 50 VPs. Except that Korne finished corrupting the 5th ruined area with all 4 of his cultists in an early region, preventing Nurgle and Tzeentch from ruining a later 5th region. Was very tense game watching Nurgle and Tzeetch try not to tie. I did horrible as Slaanesh, and the 5th ruined area put Korne into 3rd place.

 
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William Roop
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One thing I have noticed about FF games is that they are usually slow to release a FAQ. Usually it is because they would rather spend a week or two more making sure that all complaints are gathered, all fixes are thought out and playtested, and the rumblings are through on the internet. The other thing I noticed about FF is that, when they release a FAQ, it usually is a final production. They usually have a FAQ 1.0 or maybe 1.1 where some other game companies have FAQ 5.6 with a beta FAQ being playtested and an Alpha FAQ being started. I would MUCH rather have 1 piece of paper (or pdf) to carry than different version just to make sure I have all the background on FAQ decisions. But then again, I live in fear of Rules-Lawyers!
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Alex Rockwell
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The nurgle warriors are cheaper (and weaker). They are the primary nurgle advantage, and help to dominate regions to score VPs faster.
 
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Mark Bigney
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Beholm wrote:
One thing I have noticed about FF games is that they are usually slow to release a FAQ. Usually it is because they would rather spend a week or two more making sure that all complaints are gathered, all fixes are thought out and playtested, and the rumblings are through on the internet.


That's fine for a FAQ. When it comes to misprinted sheets, I would like errata posted ASAP, as in now. Especially when the errors have such a huge effect on the game!
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Steve Hope
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Alexfrog wrote:
The nurgle warriors are cheaper (and weaker). They are the primary nurgle advantage, and help to dominate regions to score VPs faster.


Thanks, Alex (and Brian). In our game we may have been too conflict-averse, with everyone dropping out their cultists and Khorne slow to start hurting people, but it seemed like Nurgle was able to supplement his team pretty well and then had very nice late game cards like the "corruption counts for domination" and so forth. Every time Khorne went after Nurgle there would be a Rain of Pus or something which blunted Khorne's attack.

Anyway, the wheel will turn and we'll try again.
 
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David
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Gyges wrote:
Beholm wrote:
One thing I have noticed about FF games is that they are usually slow to release a FAQ. Usually it is because they would rather spend a week or two more making sure that all complaints are gathered, all fixes are thought out and playtested, and the rumblings are through on the internet.


That's fine for a FAQ. When it comes to misprinted sheets, I would like errata posted ASAP, as in now. Especially when the errors have such a huge effect on the game!


Aye. This isn't Errata, this is a printing error.

They need to post up WTF the proper rules are ASAP.
 
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Alex Martinez
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Ah, once again the "Fantasy Flight games rules are bad" thread. It's a staple.

Although, I don't think it really applies especially to FFG, but rather our obsession with gaming. Just check out the many threads on Space Hulk as people debate the interpretation of every little rule. Or pretty much every game listed. (I'm sometimes surprised there isn't a Checkers rules debate on the site.) While I do love BGG, I do have to say it allows us to really indulge our more obsessive natures.

Personally, I haven't found Nurgle's warriors to be exceptionally powerful. And I see no reason to assume that there's an error in their cost.
 
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Jim Cote
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KingCroc wrote:
Although, I don't think it really applies especially to FFG...

There are lots of rules as bad or worse than FFG. It's just that FFG is a large popular company that spends a lot of money on art, graphics, figure design, etc., but seemingly allows playtesters to miss 27 rules that everyone else finds the first time they play. It's difficult to be that bad by accident. Unfortunately, calling them out repeatedly on their failures makes no difference. They would rather spend their money and time after the game comes out dealing with broken figures, FAQ's, and forum posts than editing rules properly, playtesting, and inserts that prevent damage.
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David
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KingCroc wrote:
Ah, once again the "Fantasy Flight games rules are bad" thread. It's a staple.

Although, I don't think it really applies especially to FFG, but rather our obsession with gaming. Just check out the many threads on Space Hulk as people debate the interpretation of every little rule. Or pretty much every game listed. (I'm sometimes surprised there isn't a Checkers rules debate on the site.) While I do love BGG, I do have to say it allows us to really indulge our more obsessive natures.

Personally, I haven't found Nurgle's warriors to be exceptionally powerful. And I see no reason to assume that there's an error in their cost.


This isn't a "FFG have rule issues", this is pure Q&A issues with components. Nothing to do with the rules themselves. (Which are actually very well written)

Someone, apparently, fucked up on 4 of the most important components of the game and now no one is really sure what the exact values are supposed to be.

An error in examples in the rulebook would be irrelevant if we were sure that the Player Mats were correct. But we're not.

So we're all stuck here waiting for FFG to get off it's ass and tell us what the actual values are.
 
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Jim Cote
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Shryke wrote:
This isn't a "FFG have rule issues", this is pure Q&A issues with components. Nothing to do with the rules themselves. (Which are actually very well written)

If the game that is in the box was playtested once by any group, the component problems would have been found.
 
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ekted wrote:
Shryke wrote:
This isn't a "FFG have rule issues", this is pure Q&A issues with components. Nothing to do with the rules themselves. (Which are actually very well written)

If the game that is in the box was playtested once by any group, the component problems would have been found.


Playtesting would have concluded before the design specs were sent off to the printers. So your statement makes no sense.
 
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Shryke wrote:
ekted wrote:
Shryke wrote:
This isn't a "FFG have rule issues", this is pure Q&A issues with components. Nothing to do with the rules themselves. (Which are actually very well written)

If the game that is in the box was playtested once by any group, the component problems would have been found.

Playtesting would have concluded before the design specs were sent off to the printers. So your statement makes no sense.

I wasn't trying to make a circular argument. I meant that once all the art/graphics (rules, board, cards, etc) are ready to be printed, they can still be prototyped/proofed/played by people. The rules (at least) that are going to be printed should be given to people who have not played the game.
 
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Rich P
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
There is no mess of the rules - only the examples being inconsistent with the printed cards.


The mess of rules comes from a combination of the rulebook itself, the player mats and the various threads here attempting to clarify things. I have no idea what the correct rules are anymore. Can you point me to an FAQ or official errata?

Please don't take this as a random dig at the game. I'm not saying the rules are a mess, therefore the game is terrible. I'm saying the rules are a mess, please help me to work out how to play this game which I would like to fully enjoy.

I have played twice so far, and after each game more changes have been posted on BGG. This is frustrating because I feel like I might as well not have bothered playing - neither game was a fair representation of how the game should play.
 
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brian
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MrSkeletor wrote:
The FAQ just popped up on FFGs site, so hopefully things should settle down now.

wtf Frank? You want things to settle down? I want things to Plunge into Chaos! Go keep the Arkham forums warm for me!
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