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Subject: Port Supply rss

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Luke Zarecor
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I haved a question on port supply. In the past, I've assumed that ports provide supply as long they connect to either another port that has a rail line to the map edge or to a rail line that provides a path to the map edge. The rules appear to say that any friendly port provides supply.

This would mean that Lennigrad and the adjancent port are both soviet controlled they are in supply even if no path from either hex goes to the edge of the map. Which version of the supply rules is correct.
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Luke Zarecor
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Never mind. I found the link to the game errata that clarifies port supply. My first interpretation was correct.
 
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John Gant
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Yeap.

Some nuance to it though, so be sure to read on that. Can really come in to play for Taganrog and Rostov, if the GR mines the Kerch Strait.

Be sure to read 11.4.2 carefully as it is an exception to the rule.

Some emphAsis added by me...

11.4 ADVANCED GAME SUPPLY RULES:
The Advanced Game requires some supplemental supply
rules.
11.4.1 BODY OF WATER DEFINITION: The Gulf of
Finland and the Baltic Sea are considered to be the same body of
water, as are the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea. Lakes are each
considered to be individual bodies of water.
11.4.2 SUPPLY SOURCE PORTS: Extending the
definition in 4.6.3, to be used as a supply source port, a port city
which otherwise does not qualify as a supply source may be
used as one if within a five hex long supply route (by land or sea
- not a combination of both - sea routes cannot pass into, out of
or through enemy minefield hexes) to a partial mapboard hex of
the side’s color or simply to a friendly supply source. The zones
of control of an enemy ground unit adjacent to a partial hex that
is adjacent to a coastal hex do not affect supply being traced by
sea to that partial hex.
11.4.2.1: A port may also be considered as a supply source if
there is at least one friendly naval unit and one other friendly
controlled and supplied (under 4.6.3 or 11.4.2) port located on
the same body of water
. By sea, the side must be able to trace a
continuous path of hexes from port-to-port of any length without
going through an enemy minefield hex.
11.4.2.2: Unless these conditions are met, a port city may not
be used as a supply source.


Can get tricky so be wary. Your opponent should know these and should try to use them to his/her advantage. You should know them and should attempt to prevent said action(s).

--JokerRulez

NOTE: This rulebook quote is from the unofficial WGA rulebook, version 3.3. I recommend players NOT use that rulebook, at least until becoming very fluent with the official rules. Use the Consolidated Rulebook for that effort, as it also contains the official errata that is missing from the printed rulebook.
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Luke Zarecor
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It was pricless. I had prewarned my opponent, but I was still able to cut-off 15 armies (including three shock armies and a 6-5-4) in the Lennigrad area with a December 41 last ditch offensive by the Finns and Germans cutting all the rail links into the area. We are calling that game and starting the 42 scenario.
 
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John Gant
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Awesome.

Pop a screenshot in here if you can.

I once put 30 of 61 Soviet units out of supply by a Spring 1942 offensive. I had tried to warn him of issues, questions, etc, but he kept firing back at me how much he knew about the game, there was no danger, etc. A noob who didn't know he was a noob. Game over. Most ridiculous win I've ever had.

 
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Lee Massey
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adjacent, Yep!
 
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Antony Cattrall
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hi all, what times do you guys get on vassal i would love a game online but cant really get a regular time slot especially if your from the states might be awkward have a young family so i would be able to do 20.00 to 24.00 GMT during the week??
 
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John Gant
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I play strictly PBEM. Never log in to the Vassal server. This game takes too long to play like that, imo. I just exchange logfiles back and forth. Can take weeks, months, or years to complete a game depending on how each player goes at it. Well worth it though.

--JokerRulez
 
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Antony Cattrall
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hi John, i can see your'e a very experianced player is there somewhere i can look for a step by step guide to PBEM i would be very interested in giving you a game i would have to be the russkies though because i'm not that experianced at playing the germans if your interested of course??

tony.
 
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John Gant
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I've played a time or two Tony. Couldn't object to having another go at it but not any time soon unfortunately. Way too much going on already.

Currently:
* War and Peace - Scenario II with me as French
* War and Peace - Scenario I with me as the Anti-French
* Russian Front - '41 Scenario with me as Soviets
* Russian Front - '43 Scenario with me as Axis
* Designing a new scenario for War and Peace, focused on Egypt
* Designing updates to the 1776 VASSAL module: new map, units, etc.

Will keep it in mind though. Feel free to contact me anytime. I'll gladly work with you a bit to get you started and can do that any weekend.

Interesting, these wiki links don't work. The ':' colon is killing each of them. Just copy and paste the links below in to your browser's address bar.

The VASSAL site has many good tutorials:
http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/doku.php?id=getting_started...

Here is a section specifically on PBEM:
http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/doku.php?id=getting_started...

Catch you online.

--JokerRulez
 
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Richard Sutcliffe
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So its not quicker using the Vassal server?

Not good news that, I was hoping that would be the way I could actually get a game finished.
 
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John Gant
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I think you'd have to define "quick" Richard, and not trying to be sarcastic.

This game takes a while to play. No doubt about that. It is difficult to reduce the total amount of time spent playing one campaign game of Russian Front through to completion, though more experienced players will be able to spend less time examining the variables and will go faster.

If you mean "quick" in the way of "how much time do I spend every day doing this" then VASSAL is an enormous help. No more spending an hour or two on Saturday setting up the game and then playing frantically for 5-10 hours. Just get your portion of the turn done and email it.

Easy.

--JokerRulez
 
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Richard Sutcliffe
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Yeah, I should really have defined "quick"!

Its a godsend with a two year old and a one year old being able to set it on the PC, and for that, I'll be eternally grateful to Vassal!

 
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Antony Cattrall
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Amen to that LOL!
 
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David Earle
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John, here you discuss 11.4.2 but its written differently than in the consolidated rulebook. The most recent version I have is 12132009. Is there a more recent one and does it cover 11.4.2 specifically, or to a friendly supply source, as opposed to a partial only. As written in rulebook 12132009, Jim Watson my opponent is saying that, Volkhov-Schesselberg are not supply sources with 2,3 start line borders. He's right!! Needs that little extra (or simply to a friendly supply source). Please help.

Thanks,

Dave

P.S. I'm still hoping to get an email file from you continuing our session from I dont know how many months ago now.
 
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John Gant
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Wow!

Blast from the past. Good thing this whole 'subscribe' thing.

Here is the rule in my only consolidated rulebook. I think you'll see it is NOT the same as above. Might have been the unofficial Wargame Academy rulebook I was quoting for that entry. I'll check that.

11.4.2 SUPPLY SOURCE PORTS:
Extending the definition in 4.6.3, to be
used as a supply source port, a port city
which otherwise does not qualify as a
supply source may be used as one if within
a five hex long supply route (by land or
sea - sea routes cannot pass through
enemy minefield hexes) to a partial map
board hex of that side’s color.


Yes, I believe that is correct. Some mandatory hexes are not in supply at the start of those scenarios. You have to place quite carefully and plan your moves. However, the '43 scenario is so in favor of the Soviet that you can do pretty much whatever you like there.

There is no other version of the Consolidated Rulebook than the one I released. Just a very few, and unimportant errata for that copy. You have the only version. Let me know if you find anything different from the official rulebook and/or errata.

Dave, I'll shoot you an email. Thanks for the reminder. Let me say that War and Peace is taking all of my time right now. Possible publisher for the effort. Very exciting, but I've put hundreds of hours in to that project now.

laugh

Happy gaming guys,

--JokerRulez
 
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John Gant
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Yeap. That was the Wargame Academy rulebook I quoted in the above. Here it is again:

11.4.2 SUPPLY SOURCE PORTS: Extending the
definition in 4.6.3, to be used as a supply source port, a port city
which otherwise does not qualify as a supply source may be
used as one if within a five hex long supply route (by land or sea
- not a combination of both - sea routes cannot pass into, out of
or through enemy minefield hexes) to a partial mapboard hex of
the side’s color. The zones of control of an enemy ground unit
adjacent to a partial hex that is adjacent to a coastal hex do not
affect supply being traced by sea to that partial hex.


I was really beginning to hate that rulebook, and thus the effort to put together the Consolidated Rulebook.

Use that ruling if you want. It is likely as good as any other clarification of such ambiguities.

Here is the site: http://www.wargameacademy.org/

I felt that effort started out with the right intentions, but eventually went the wrong direction. Don't hesitate to use that rulebook for opinions, but you shouldn't take it as the official Avalon Hill rulings (if such things matter to you).

--JokerRulez
 
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David Earle
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John, thanks for getting back so quickly. Here is what you wrote above:

11.4.2 SUPPLY SOURCE PORTS: Extending the
definition in 4.6.3, to be used as a supply source port, a port city
which otherwise does not qualify as a supply source may be
used as one if within a five hex long supply route (by land or sea
- not a combination of both - sea routes cannot pass into, out of
or through enemy minefield hexes) to a partial mapboard hex of
the side’s color or simply to a friendly supply source. The zones
of control of an enemy ground unit adjacent to a partial hex that
is adjacent to a coastal hex do not affect supply being traced by
sea to that partial hex.

The WGA version you posted today does not include--"or simply to a friendly supply source". This is what I'm looking for. I feel its a necessary part of the rule. Without it Leningrad would be oos if the axis reach lake Ladoga from the south. For a couple of years based on the 2,3 start lines and could not survive. To me it seems that the way the rule is written above solves all problems and creates none. Where did it come from? and is that how the rule should be or why was it rejected in this form? I appreciate you comments and comments from anyone else on this point.

Regards to all,
 
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John Gant
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That is one of the issues I had with the WGA rulebook. It kept changing. I have roughly 6 versions from them over the years. Which should be used? Only the most current? Why?

So, I went back to only official work. Any ambiguities or questions that need to be answered can be done in a friendly manner between opponents.

I posted version 3.5 of the WGA rulebook in that last post. That rulebook is dated 10/18/09. Here is version 3.3 from 06/25/09:

11.4.2 SUPPLY SOURCE PORTS: Extending the
definition in 4.6.3, to be used as a supply source port, a port city
which otherwise does not qualify as a supply source may be
used as one if within a five hex long supply route (by land or sea
- not a combination of both - sea routes cannot pass into, out of
or through enemy minefield hexes) to a partial mapboard hex of
the side’s color or simply to a friendly supply source. The zones
of control of an enemy ground unit adjacent to a partial hex that
is adjacent to a coastal hex do not affect supply being traced by
sea to that partial hex.


I do not see that in version 3.1 from 03/08/09. Looks like it only made it in to a few brief versions.

I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. I no longer support the WGA effort, for exactly the reasons you see here. It may or may not be a good source for those looking for some ruling on things that may not be covered adequately in the official work.

Basically, if you don't see an answer in the Consolidated Rulebook either you aren't looking in the right place or it isn't covered adequately in the official work (that does happen).

Regards,

--JokerRulez
 
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