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Subject: Similarity to L'Attaque should be noted rss

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Lewis Pulsipher
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Shouldn't BGG note in the introductory material that this game is similar to, and almost certainly derived from, the H.P. Gibsons game L'Attaque (1909)? It is not exactly the same, but not far from it (numbered pieces, spy (same name) can kill the strongest piece but only when attacking, flag, bombs, etc.) I'm not talking about similarity the way Stalingrad and Afrika Korps are similar, I mean almost identical in effect. I can't make a closer comparison as I don't have a copy of L'Attaque.
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True Blue Jon
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I think you can do that yourself just by clicking on Edit next to the description.
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Gláucio Reis
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I was unfamiliar with that game, but on its turn, it is probably derived from Jungle.

As a side note, isn't it a little weird that anyone can edit game descriptions at will?
 
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Lewis Pulsipher
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Perhaps it is derived from Dou Shou Qi, but most games derive from others in that sense. Stratego is clearly a minor modification of L'Attaque.
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Mik Svellov
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lewpuls wrote:
Perhaps it is derived from Dou Shou Qi, but most games derive from others in that sense. Stratego is clearly a minor modification of L'Attaque.

I agree. My uncle had a copy of that game when I was a kid, and I have always thought it was the same game.
 
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Tim Stellmach
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GSReis wrote:
As a side note, isn't it a little weird that anyone can edit game descriptions at will?

Seems to be working fairly well so far.
 
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Gláucio Reis
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timstellmach wrote:
GSReis wrote:
As a side note, isn't it a little weird that anyone can edit game descriptions at will?

Seems to be working fairly well so far.

Until someone abuses it...

But back to the original topic, I wonder which other classic "American" games are copies of European games, Risk being a case in point.
 
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Brad Miller
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Isn't it based on a wiki model? So even if it gets abused, there's a record of who did it and what they did. So it can be changed, and the user banned...
 
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Mik Svellov
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GSReis wrote:
But back to the original topic, I wonder which other classic "American" games are copies of European games,

It depends upon how you define 'classic' - but here are a couple:
Clue
Civilization
History of the World
Talisman
Kremlin
 
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Gláucio Reis
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Great Dane wrote:

It depends upon how you define 'classic'

Actually, it's more about how I define "copy". And by that I meant "rip-off". Your examples seem to be just games that were designed in Europe and have been (very) successful in the U.S.
 
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Mik Svellov
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GSReis wrote:
Actually, it's more about how I define "copy". And by that I meant "rip-off". Your examples seem to be just games that were designed in Europe and have been (very) successful in the U.S.

Maybe it you?
Both Risk and Stratego are wellknown European designs, like the ones I mentioned, that have been bought by American publishers. So what's the difference?
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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Did anyone *pay* for the Stratego design, though, or did they just "borrow" it wholesale? That might be the difference.

I'm another one in tha camp of having seen "L'Attaque" decades ago, and thought that Stratego was simply the same game with plastic pieces. But then, it's the same company who are happy to churn out the same dross from one decade to the next, so originality was never going to be high on their list of priorities.
 
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Mik Svellov
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RDewsbery wrote:
Did anyone *pay* for the Stratego design, though, or did they just "borrow" it wholesale? That might be the difference.

I don't know whether Jumbo International actually paid for the design, but I am pretty sure they wouldn't let Milton Bradley use it for free if they could help it.
 
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Lewis Pulsipher
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The two games are not exactly the same, as L'A has 36 pieces and Stratego has 40 (as I recall). The piece numbers are also reversed in Stratego (scout is a 9 instead of a 2), though that is not a functional difference.

It's possible L'A was out of copyright by 1947.

In any case, Copyright doesn't protect game ideas, so Stratego was probably technically legal even if L'A was copyrighted in America (and it may not have been).
 
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Andy Van Zandt
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from the inside of the sliding cover on the wooden-box version of stratego available at Target:

"In 1908, a French woman, M. Hermance Edan, filed a patent for a 'jeu de bataille avec pieces mobiles sur damier,' or 'a battle game with mobile pieces on a gameboard.' The game, soon sold as L'Attaque, had a red army vs. a blue army - and was the ancestor of the STRATEGO game. L'Attaque became very popular and was sold all over Europe and Britain through World War II and beyond.

The name STRATEGO was first trademarked by a Dutchman named Jacques Johan Mogendorff in 1947. In the 50's it was sold to a European game company. Early versions of the board had only plain squares and a 'no man's land' instead of lakes. Some early sets had wooden playing pieces. In 1961, Milton Bradley bought the rights to the STRATEGO game and introduced 'The Popular Old World Game of Skill and Strategy' to America... and the rest, as they say... is history!"

edit to add:
and down at the bottom it says it's a Jumbo game, and the trademark for STRATEGO is licensed from Hausemann en Hotte BV (Jumbo International).
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