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John Prados' Third Reich» Forums » Rules

Subject: Minor country declarations. rss

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Ian Buttridge
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Hostile 16.31 says that a Hostile minor country will delcare war on a major on a roll of 1. Is this even if the major power is not at war with another major power? We are starting are first game now and of course Turkey, Finland, and Rumania are all at Hostile with Russia who is at peace with Germany.

Ian
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Jeff Adams
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That's correct, under the restrictions of 5.52. Russia has to work hard to keep other countries from becoming hostile. Note too there will be some diplomatic modifiers once another major power declares against Russia. It's a significant change from previous rules versions, but in our opinion it does make for a more realistic diplomatic game, even though it might result in some unrealistic war scenarios. We also consider it an 'abstract' rule that doesn't literally mean the minor just decides to go to war, declaring themselves out of the blue, but that there's been some incidents that have escalated, the major instigated something, etc.

If this isn't to your liking you could also use a house rule that is similar to the second edition rules, where if a "1" is rolled Russia (or the major power) is permanently hostile (turn over their influence marker--that country cannot influence their or any other markers for that country) and as soon as a major power declares against the major power without influence the minor also declares against the major without influence.
 
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Mark Luta
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But then, what else does Russia really have to spend BRP on in 1939, other than the political track?!?

To emphasize the point of diplomatic modifiers, note that there is a modifier for declaring war on the same nation the minor is at war with. So if say, Spain declares war on the USSR, obviously there are not going to be any immediate hostilities...But longer term, once Germany declares war on Russia, Spain is inevitably going to become a German ally--a real problem for Britain, who then really needs to work to become an ally of Spain as well, to prevent any German (or Italian) advantage longer term. Recall also that the Germans can end a war between Russia and any minor nation by gaining the minor as a Client, so long as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is in force. (There is actually a clever game mechanic that the USSR want to go to war with Finland, unless perhaps they are hampered by another war being declared on them. But the fact the Finnish 3-3 infantry can never be rebuilt to full strength once reduced, so any they can shatter before the Germans can end the war will be that much less to deal with in the 'real' war.)

I am also not sure about the above 'unrealistic war scenario' comment. I suppose the diplomatic track could end up being way overused (this is WWII, not the Cold War, after all), but it is quite historically realistic that Romania, for example, is a difficult ally for Germany to gain. Historically, it really is somewhat amazing the Romanians joined the Axis, especially after the awarding of Transylvania to Hungary. Had Russia not occupied Bessarabia, Romania probably would have been a Soviet ally in 1941, not a German. Countries like Greece and Turkey were also historically much more in play diplomatically than we normally read about in WWII history, as they ended up being sideshows but could have been much more central to the war, an option this game allows players to pursue.
 
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Ian Buttridge
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BTW-Romania Declared and the Russians simply roll them over. 3 armored units and 2 full airunits plus the horde of infantry is really too much for the Romanians to have any kind of chance of holding. As the Germans are headed to france they didn't have to be concerned about keeping troops anywhere else. Esp after managing to roll the Fins and Turks out of Hostile. Bad start for the Axis.

Other events - Il Duce directed the Italians to invaid greece. This is actually going well but will take until the fall to finish them. It is keeping Italy out of the war with france and england though.....Italians subs have insured that no greek units will get rebuilt.

Germans where delayed in the north as we didn't realize the Brits could SR into Norway.......

Japanese declared total war against China as all but one emargo chit was in.....I'm not sure even persuing this fight is a good strategy as Taking additional provinces is slow. Only one has been drawn so far...
 
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