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Subject: 9/12 Project rss

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Wray Cason
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I just finished watching Glenn Beck's 2 hour special out the 9/12 rallies today.

I have mixed feelings about Glenn Beck. I find him to be hyperbolic and prone to aimless rants. I find him hard to listen to with his sometimes over the top emotion and strained dire seriousness.

My esteem for him rose today though. I am impressed with how he is calling for activism not on partisan grounds but on principled grounds. He is calling for and commenting on what he currently sees as an awakening new civic awareness and concern. He calls for a rejection of the typical left/right bickering and an embrace of Constitutional principles and unity irrespective of party affiliation.

I don't know of another commentator that focuses so much on principles and that rejects partisan blame games as much as Glenn Beck. As much as his style annoys me, I really appreciate the work he is doing.
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Tobias Strobe
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Have been watching the speakers on C-Span? Birchers, Bithers, racists, and shills. There was a speaker on earlier who was discussing the connection between the Federal Reserve and the Shadow Government, but that wasn't as interesting as the rhythm-challenged conservative hip hop group.

Also at least a dozen Obama=Hitler signs, one Obama=Satan sign, and the new classic, "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy".

Thank God for Glenn Beck.

Quote:
My esteem for him rose today though. I am impressed with how he is calling for activism not on partisan grounds but on principled grounds. He is calling for and commenting on what he currently sees as an awakening new civic awareness and concern. He calls for a rejection of the typical left/right bickering and an embrace of Constitutional principles and unity irrespective of party affiliation.


TOTALLY non-partisan, which is why he called out the Bush administration when they strained the constitution with warrantless wiretapping.

Oh wait....
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Wray Cason
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Ilthuain wrote:
Have been watching the speakers on C-Span?

Thanks for the heads up. I am watching C-Span now.
 
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Ilthuain wrote:
TOTALLY non-partisan, which is why he called out the Bush administration when they strained the constitution with warrantless wiretapping.

Oh wait....


I didn't watch Beck back then but I have heard/seen clips from his CNN show and heart snippets of radio broadcasts from years past, and I can assure you he was railing against Bush as well. This is not new for him. What has changed in his mind is the degree and speed of which government is growing.

Btw, Wray - I actually like GB's style, but you're right, he's not for everybody. I would say that most people have some pre-conceived notion of what/who is is before they ever watch him, especially after 'get off my phone' bits. I was fortunate to not even really know about him until he came to Fox; I've enjoyed since, and even picked up his radio broadcast when I can.
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John So-And-So
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Wow, that's clever!

Oh no wait, the other one. Lame.
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I think I missed the memo for the million white-man march. I'm such a bad white guy.



Oh I see, it's the million "fat" white man march...no wonder I wasn't invited.

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Wray Cason
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GAWD wrote:
Wray ... you realize your post is comedy gold right?
Well, my wife laughs at me hardest when I am not trying to be funny so you might be right.
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Tobias Strobe
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http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/obama-witchdoctor-mu...

Amy Kramer, who was just speaking at the rally, defended the above image as "not racist".

But nevermind. It's IMPOSSIBLE for a conservative to be racist, much like it's impossible for a libertarian to be racist (thank you Ron Paul).

Also:

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04...
http://www.plunderbund.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/monkey...
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1398/sli...

Yup. No racism there either.
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Wray Cason
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Ilthuain wrote:
Have been watching the speakers on C-Span? Birchers, Bithers, racists, and shills. There was a speaker on earlier who was discussing the connection between the Federal Reserve and the Shadow Government, but that wasn't as interesting as the rhythm-challenged conservative hip hop group.

Also at least a dozen Obama=Hitler signs, one Obama=Satan sign, and the new classic, "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy".

The DC rally just ended. I didn't see what you saw. I saw a diverse cross section of Americans that are put off by overbearing government. Some of the signs were rather inflammatory in my opinion but they were pretty rare. I think the bottom line is that there is significant displeasure with governmental power and spending. Asshats aside, that was clearly the focus of the rally and rightly so in my opinion.
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Tobias Strobe
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TheOriginalGameBoy wrote:
Ilthuain wrote:
TOTALLY non-partisan, which is why he called out the Bush administration when they strained the constitution with warrantless wiretapping.

Oh wait....


I didn't watch Beck back then but I have heard/seen clips from his CNN show and heart snippets of radio broadcasts from years past, and I can assure you he was railing against Bush as well.


That's a bit of an overstatement.

He would OCCASIONALLY say something negative about Bush, but that was mostly about his strained speaking style or when he wavered on Beck's concept of Pure Conservatism, but he never was terribly vitriolic and certainly didn't raise the question of the constitutionality of wiretapping or how the Iraq war was conducted. His Bush criticisms were mild and completely within the "Accepted Bush Critique" you could hear on any other conservative radio show (grrr immigration, grrr bailouts, etc.)

I listened to Beck back when he was a Phil Hendrie wannabe in 2001-2003 and the occasional show after that, so you're probably not going to be able to sell me the "nonpartisan" line. This dude is as partisan as Mark Levin.
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Tobias Strobe
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Wrayman wrote:
Ilthuain wrote:
Have been watching the speakers on C-Span? Birchers, Bithers, racists, and shills. There was a speaker on earlier who was discussing the connection between the Federal Reserve and the Shadow Government, but that wasn't as interesting as the rhythm-challenged conservative hip hop group.

Also at least a dozen Obama=Hitler signs, one Obama=Satan sign, and the new classic, "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy".

The DC rally just ended. I didn't see what you saw. I saw a diverse cross section of Americans that are put off by overbearing government. Some of the signs were rather inflammatory in my opinion but they were pretty rare. I think the bottom line is that there is significant displeasure with governmental power and spending. Asshats aside, that was clearly the focus of the rally and rightly so in my opinion.


Well yeah. You agree with their conclusions so you're probably not interested in the fact that three of the invited speakers appear on the white supremacist internet radio show The Political Cesspool.
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Wray Cason
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Ilthuain wrote:
Wrayman wrote:
Ilthuain wrote:
Have been watching the speakers on C-Span? Birchers, Bithers, racists, and shills. There was a speaker on earlier who was discussing the connection between the Federal Reserve and the Shadow Government, but that wasn't as interesting as the rhythm-challenged conservative hip hop group.

Also at least a dozen Obama=Hitler signs, one Obama=Satan sign, and the new classic, "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy".

The DC rally just ended. I didn't see what you saw. I saw a diverse cross section of Americans that are put off by overbearing government. Some of the signs were rather inflammatory in my opinion but they were pretty rare. I think the bottom line is that there is significant displeasure with governmental power and spending. Asshats aside, that was clearly the focus of the rally and rightly so in my opinion.


Well yeah. You agree with their conclusions so you're probably not interested in the fact that three of the invited speakers appear on the white supremacist internet radio show The Political Cesspool.

I'll have to take your word for that. I don't know about such details. I do know that I agree with the contention that all those rally participants share. I also expect that there are other points where I would disagree with any of them. The point today was the agreements among them, not the disagreements.
 
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Tobias Strobe
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Wrayman wrote:
Ilthuain wrote:
Wrayman wrote:
Ilthuain wrote:
Have been watching the speakers on C-Span? Birchers, Bithers, racists, and shills. There was a speaker on earlier who was discussing the connection between the Federal Reserve and the Shadow Government, but that wasn't as interesting as the rhythm-challenged conservative hip hop group.

Also at least a dozen Obama=Hitler signs, one Obama=Satan sign, and the new classic, "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy".

The DC rally just ended. I didn't see what you saw. I saw a diverse cross section of Americans that are put off by overbearing government. Some of the signs were rather inflammatory in my opinion but they were pretty rare. I think the bottom line is that there is significant displeasure with governmental power and spending. Asshats aside, that was clearly the focus of the rally and rightly so in my opinion.


Well yeah. You agree with their conclusions so you're probably not interested in the fact that three of the invited speakers appear on the white supremacist internet radio show The Political Cesspool.

I'll have to take your word for that. I don't know about such details. I do know that I agree with the contention that all those rally participants share. I also expect that there are other points where I would disagree with any of them. The point today was the agreements among them, not the disagreements.


From today:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20090912Obam...

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20090912Unar...

Quite the crowd you've chosen to associate yourself with.

Now, I'll agree, creeps with signs are one thing, people invited to speak at the event are another... but what's one or two white supremacists between friends?
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I don't follow Beck, but I hope some moderate takes back control of the Republican party soon, and takes the spotlight of all the extremists. At the moment I'm mostly seeing a lot of greed, paranoia, selfishness, and ignorance.
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Chris Kice
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Beck's words about service and volunteerism are so hollow.

So many conservatives rail against how horrible it is to volunteer. One of the rants against Obama during the campaign was that he was one of those evil "community organizers".

This past Friday (9/11) Rush Limbaugh said "Community service is one of the baby steps toward fascism". (http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200909110029)

I'm sick of seeing supposedly Christian conservatives complain about welfare and community service. Jesus wasn't a GI Joe action hero - he went out and fed the hungry and tended to the sick. It would be nice if these hypocrites thought about that before they opened their big yaps.
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Ken
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Wrayman wrote:
He calls for a rejection of the typical left/right bickering and an embrace of Constitutional principles and unity irrespective of party affiliation.


Then he should demonstrate some commitment to rejecting that bickering and push for unity first, then I'll believe he's serious. Like on his TV show where he pushes partisan bickering and presents issues in a divisive manner.

Sorry, Wray, but this is (to me) pure PR and nothing more. At least for Mr. Beck.
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OFF TOPIC

Nekura wrote:
I'm sick of seeing supposedly Christian conservatives complain about welfare and community service. Jesus wasn't a GI Joe action hero - he went out and fed the hungry and tended to the sick.

And Jesus is the example to be followed by people, not governments. Which is why the people (especially Christians) should be responsible for such charitable activities, NOT the government. I can't count the number of people (motivated by their faith in someone or something) that I have seen volunteering their wealth, their time, and their personal service to the less fortunate amongst us. Of course, this include a large number of secular volunteer organizations and charities that display all of the same notable qualities as the faith based charities.

But these charities do not invade my paycheck and take my wages to give them away to others. I willingly give of my time, effort, and money to organizations that I feel are doing the best they can to help those truly in need. It is the involuntary government cash grab masquerading as government backed charity that rubs me the wrong way.
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Tobias Strobe
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Drew1365 wrote:
tesuji wrote:
I don't follow Beck, but I hope some moderate takes back control of the Republican party soon, and takes the spotlight of all the extremists.


Some questions for you to consider:

Why do you think the spotlight is on extremists?

Who controls the spotlight?

Do those who control the spotlight have an agenda?



Personally, I get most of my Crazypants Conservative Updates from the blog Little Green Footballs, and if Charles Johnson has a liberal agenda, I'll bet that's news to him.

But keep your hands over your eyes if that makes you feel better. Your party going down the shitter does make for some interesting news (although it is probably a terrible thing for our country).
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Tobias Strobe
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Bearcat89 wrote:
OFF TOPIC

Nekura wrote:
I'm sick of seeing supposedly Christian conservatives complain about welfare and community service. Jesus wasn't a GI Joe action hero - he went out and fed the hungry and tended to the sick.

And Jesus is the example to be followed by people, not governments. Which is why the people (especially Christians) should be responsible for such charitable activities, NOT the government. I can't count the number of people (motivated by their faith in someone or something) that I have seen volunteering their wealth, their time, and their personal service to the less fortunate amongst us. Of course, this include a large number of secular volunteer organizations and charities that display all of the same notable qualities as the faith based charities.

But these charities do not invade my paycheck and take my wages to give them away to others. I willingly give of my time, effort, and money to organizations that I feel are doing the best they can to help those truly in need. It is the involuntary government cash grab masquerading as government backed charity that rubs me the wrong way.


Jesus was also a pacifist who advocated giving all your possessions away and trusting in God alone... but hey, it's not like anyone actually does what that guy said anyway.

Also, in a democratic society, "government" is "people" (at least when your favorite party is in charge... it's a cold and unfeeling machine when the other guys win).
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Drew1365 wrote:
tesuji wrote:
I don't follow Beck, but I hope some moderate takes back control of the Republican party soon, and takes the spotlight of all the extremists.


Some questions for you to consider:

Why do you think the spotlight is on extremists?


Because it is a quick story, and because they get ratings.

Quote:

Who controls the spotlight?


The people who want to get high ratings without much effort.

Quote:
Do those who control the spotlight have an agenda?


Yes - to maximize ad revenues by getting high ratings.

You have highlighted the problem of for-profit news.

-MMM
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Thoughtful and nuanced do not bring ratings. Therefore, all you hear is truisms and simple views of the world in black and white, leading to a populace that chooses politicians like most people choose sports teams.

Few people resist the temptation of simplicity. We can find arguments as early as Aristotle's against just painting the world in black and white, and understanding the value of thoughtful moderation.

That is really how people's understanding of science has failed us. It's most important teaching is that we must observe the world closely, because the closer we look, the more we notice that the more we look, the more we realize we don't know. Instead, people want to be told how right they are, how much they know, and would rather listen to ideal fantasies instead of the complex, imperfect realty. That is why news that are informative lose in ratings, as society sinks lower. Isn't it sad that, in a moment of history where information is so plentiful and easy to obtain, this excess of information just means that people can easily avoid having to listen to points of view that disagree with their own? We might be better off with less information, but more accurate.
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I actually like the sign.

It does seem that critics of Obama are quite often called racists.

I believe some racists criticize Obama, but I don't think most critics of Obama are racist.
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Ilthuain wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
OFF TOPIC

Nekura wrote:
I'm sick of seeing supposedly Christian conservatives complain about welfare and community service. Jesus wasn't a GI Joe action hero - he went out and fed the hungry and tended to the sick.

And Jesus is the example to be followed by people, not governments. Which is why the people (especially Christians) should be responsible for such charitable activities, NOT the government. I can't count the number of people (motivated by their faith in someone or something) that I have seen volunteering their wealth, their time, and their personal service to the less fortunate amongst us. Of course, this include a large number of secular volunteer organizations and charities that display all of the same notable qualities as the faith based charities.

But these charities do not invade my paycheck and take my wages to give them away to others. I willingly give of my time, effort, and money to organizations that I feel are doing the best they can to help those truly in need. It is the involuntary government cash grab masquerading as government backed charity that rubs me the wrong way.


Jesus was also a pacifist who advocated giving all your possessions away and trusting in God alone... but hey, it's not like anyone actually does what that guy said anyway.

Also, in a democratic society, "government" is "people" (at least when your favorite party is in charge... it's a cold and unfeeling machine when the other guys win).


Funny, non-Christians insisting the secular government must do christian things. I hear this "logic" often from the Left. What's up with that?

Jesus never even suggested that the political powers of the moment attempt to achieve His teachings. He always insisted the Church do those things. The Church is voluntary, not forced through taxes and law. Jesus didn't overtake the government of His day, even though He could have with no problem, in order to accomplish His goals. Jesus didn't force money out of peoples hands to fund his projects. Jesus doesn't work like our government, and our government doesn't work like Jesus. That's the way it is supposed to be. Thank God!

If you are really interested in christian stuff getting done then join a church and start volunteering. This would be a great step in you actually doing what the guy said.
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tada wrote:
Ilthuain wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
OFF TOPIC

Nekura wrote:
I'm sick of seeing supposedly Christian conservatives complain about welfare and community service. Jesus wasn't a GI Joe action hero - he went out and fed the hungry and tended to the sick.

And Jesus is the example to be followed by people, not governments. Which is why the people (especially Christians) should be responsible for such charitable activities, NOT the government. I can't count the number of people (motivated by their faith in someone or something) that I have seen volunteering their wealth, their time, and their personal service to the less fortunate amongst us. Of course, this include a large number of secular volunteer organizations and charities that display all of the same notable qualities as the faith based charities.

But these charities do not invade my paycheck and take my wages to give them away to others. I willingly give of my time, effort, and money to organizations that I feel are doing the best they can to help those truly in need. It is the involuntary government cash grab masquerading as government backed charity that rubs me the wrong way.


Jesus was also a pacifist who advocated giving all your possessions away and trusting in God alone... but hey, it's not like anyone actually does what that guy said anyway.

Also, in a democratic society, "government" is "people" (at least when your favorite party is in charge... it's a cold and unfeeling machine when the other guys win).


Funny, non-Christians insisting the secular government must do christian things. I hear this "logic" often from the Left. What's up with that?

Jesus never even suggested that the political powers of the moment attempt to achieve His teachings. He always insisted the Church do those things. The Church is voluntary, not forced through taxes and law. Jesus didn't overtake the government of His day, even though He could have with no problem, in order to accomplish His goals. Jesus didn't force money out of peoples hands to fund his projects. Jesus doesn't work like our government, and our government doesn't work like Jesus. That's the way it is supposed to be. Thank God!

If you are really interested in christian stuff getting done then join a church and start volunteering. This would be a great step in you actually doing what the guy said.


Please don't tell me what my religion is. It is none of your business and certainly not your place.

Thanks.
 
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