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Subject: Help needed for translation small text (4 words) into German. rss

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Sander Vernyns
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For the back of the box of Empty Erlenmeyer Experiment Expansion I would like to have a good translation for the following text into German:

Challenging choices & secret flasks.

I suppose the following text is correct but it never hurts to check it
Nur zusammen mit Experiment spielbar!
Inhalt: 21 neuen Karte & Spielregeln.

I hope that some German speaking BoardGameGeeks can help us out as we need to have the files for the game ready this weekend to get the expansion printed for Essen Spiel 09.

Replies are possible in this thread, by geekmail or email (sander@sandtimer.be)

We try to get our products as good as possible and the fact that we are not native speakers makes it very easy to make some mistakes.

Thanks in advance for the help.

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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Verbal wrote:
For the back of the box of Empty Erlenmeyer Experiment Expansion I would like to have a good translation for the following text into German:

Challenging choices & secret flasks.

I can't really think of something that sounds cool, but a literal translation would be odd, I'd suggest something like the following:
Harte Entscheidungen, geheime Rezepte.
('Rezepte' is actually 'formulas', the problem is that the literal translation, 'geheime Fläschchen' just doesn't have much of a ring to it)

Quote:
I suppose the following text is correct but it never hurts to check it
Nur zusammen mit Experiment spielbar!
Inhalt: 21 neuen Karte & Spielregeln.

Not entirely, the second line should read:
Inhalt: 21 neue Karten & Spielregeln. (Or even better: 'Inhalt: Spielregeln & 21 neue Karten', otherwise it sounds like the game contains a rule for each new card)
The first line is accurate, but could be made clearer...
Maybe something like: 'Nur zusammen mit dem Experiment Grundspiel spielbar!'

I hope that helps.

Edit:
You could also just print 'Experiment' bold in that first line if that's an option, that should clear things up as well...
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Heinrich Glumpler
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Hi,

"Challenging choices & secret flasks."

could be translated as

> Schwere Entscheidungen & Geheimnisvolle Trünke

"secret flasks" would normally be translated as "Geheime Flaschen", but that does not make much sense in german.

To be able to translate it, I would have to know the exact meaning of "secret flasks"? Alternatively the rules could be helpful here.

Maybe it is something like "sinister brews"? Or "unknown elixiers"?

In this case my "Geheimnisvolle Trünke" would be the right choice.

Regarding the other text. The correct form would be:

> Nur zusammen mit "Elixier" spielbar!
> Inhalt: Spielregel & 21 neue Karten.

Note:
Put the name of the game in apostrophes to indicate that you mean the game.
It is "neue" (instead of "neuen") in any case.
"Spielregel" stands for the instruction sheet itself.

"Spielregeln" instead would be the set of new rules. If you would prefer to talk of the new rules itself then you should say

> Neue Spielregeln & 21 neue Karten.

Hope this helps

Best Regards
Heinrich

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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Trünke?
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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"Schwere Entscheidungen & Geheimnisvolle Kolben" should also work with regard to the expansion name itself (=> Erlenmeyer!).
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Andreas Krüger
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Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Trünke?


Trunk, pl. Trünke = drink (sounds old fashioned)
Trank, pl. Tränke = potion
 
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Is 'flask' the term for the different fluids on the cards?

If yes, then I suggest the following translation:

"Ernste Entscheidungen und Geheime Gebräue"

That way you'd keep the alliteration. "Knifflige" would be a better translation of 'challenging' than "Ernste", though.

I agree with Sascha's and Heinrich's suggestions, too.
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Sander Vernyns
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First of all thanks to all people responding (as quick as usual, you just ask something here and there are responses before you know, thanks)

The final result is looking like this:


Schwere Entscheidungen & geheime Flaschen.
Nur zusammen mit "Experiment" spielbar!
Inhalt: 21 neue Karten, Spielregeln.


There are a lot of great remarks made but their are some things we have to keep in mind ... the space is limited on the back of the box ... it's a stupid reason but I can't put more text on the box as there is just not enough place. The text is also in 4 languages and I would like to have all the text in the different languages in the same lettertype (it always seems to mee that in German more or longer words are used , so the text for the other languages is now also 7pt instead of 8pt.

Geheime Flaschen (or is it Fläschen?) may sound a little bit strange but I think that people who are familiar with our game Experiment will understand what we mean or at least will have a clue about it.
There are 2 card with gamerules on them (one language on each side).
Personnaly I prefer to mention the gamerules seperately (in fact their are 23 cards in the expansion (but as 2 of them are only rules and no playing cards I prefer to mention them as gamerules)

Thanks for the great help ...
German is easier to understand than to write

Greetz,

Sander
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Flamin_Jesus wrote:
Trünke?


Trunk, pl. Trünke = drink (sounds old fashioned)
Trank, pl. Tränke = potion


I know, I know, (See that flag next to my name? ) it's just that outside of fantasy novels and P&P RPGs (And perhaps old timey menus) almost nobody ever uses the word "Trunk", and even then the plural "Trünke" just comes across as extremely cheesy.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Verbal wrote:
Geheime Flaschen (or is it Fläschen?)


"Fläschchen" would be OK.
 
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Heinrich Glumpler
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Hi,

ok - but make it...

Schwere Entscheidungen & Geheime Fläschchen.
Nur zusammen mit "Experiment" spielbar!
Inhalt: 21 neue Karten, Spielregeln.

Note the capital case of "Geheime" - wether you use "Flaschen" or "Fläschchen".

Best Regards
Heinrich

Edit: english grammar ... could be also quite difficult
 
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nosferrari wrote:
Note the capital case of "Geheime" - wether you use "Flaschen" or "Fläschchen".

Why?
 
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Verbal wrote:
Geheime Flaschen (or is it Fläschen?) may sound a little bit strange but I think that people who are familiar with our game Experiment will understand what we mean or at least will have a clue about it.

Oh, you really mean the container with flask, not the fluid. In that case I would use the German word "Gefäß" for flask, instead of "Flaschen".

I would not use "Schwere" to translate challenging, as "Schwere" means difficult or hard. My suggestions are "Knifflige" or "Ernste" (for an alliteration).

"Ernste Entscheidungen und Geheime Gefäße"


E Decker wrote:
nosferrari wrote:
Note the capital case of "Geheime" - wether you use "Flaschen" or "Fläschchen".

Why?

It's a title.
 
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Heinrich Glumpler
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Hi,

the same reason that you use:

"Dungeons & Dragons"

Nobody would say "Dungeons & dragons", I suppose.

Oooooh, I see! Sorry, I was tricked by the use of the "&".

In this case it would be correct to write...

Schwere Entscheidungen und geheime Fläschchen.

Still better then - because it sounds much better in german is:

Geheime Fläschchen und schwere Entscheidungen.

Sorry if I made your decision harder than necessary.

Best Regards
Heinrich
 
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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"Ernste" is a no-go, "Knifflige" might be better, but "Schwere" is just right. In German, you don't make much of a difference between challenging and hard.

"Gefäße" is another no-go. It's too general. My suggestion "Kolben" would be nearer to the theme as the Erlenmeyer flask is called "Erlenmeyer-Kolben" in German. If not Kolben, "Flaschen" or "Fläschchen" is way better than Gefäß.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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'Ernste' would keep the alliteration, but wouldn't be worth it since "Ernste Entscheidungen" and "Schwere Entscheidungen" are not as interchangeable as "Ernste Probleme" and "Schwere Probleme" (for example), "Ernste Entscheidungen" doesn't really make a lot of sense...
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Heinrich Glumpler
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Hi,

I would not recommend to use "Gefäß" since it is too "general" ("Gefäß" is most often used for pots, cups, trays and the like - containers that have a wide opening at the top).

"Fläschchen" seems quite good - everybody will think of tiny, shiny bottles.

Simon Mueller - you are correct regarding the *translation* to "Ernste Entscheidungen" ... and it would indeed be good as alliteration, BUT...

...but it has a definite "heavy" meaning - very un-game-like.
In german the word "Ernst" is practically the opposite of "Spiel" (game), so I would avoid it at all costs when describing a game.

And yes - I also thought at first, that the original text was a title (because of the "&"), but now I think it was just a sub-title or short description, so I take back my recommendation to capitalize the second part.

Best Regards
Heinrich

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Simon Mueller wrote:

E Decker wrote:
nosferrari wrote:
Note the capital case of "Geheime" - wether you use "Flaschen" or "Fläschchen".

Why?

It's a title.

Even if it is used as a title, the rules for German titles aren't the same as those of English titles.

Incidentally, very very very strictly speaking the use of the "&" here isn't correct, either, but you won't get too many complaints about that.
 
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John Bobek
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Who knew that you could join BGG and learn a language?
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This is really a stupid discussion, but I like it ...

About capitalization: Yes I also misread the line as the title, but it isn't. So the second adjective in the German translation must not be capitalized.

About my choice of words: I know that "Ernste Entscheidungen" has a very heavy tone, BUT ONLY if you take it literally. However, it can also be interpreted as tongue-in-cheek and that was my intention.

The literal translation of flask is of course "Fläschen". But I don't think chemists use this term in German often, instead they use "Gläser", "Kolben" (which is an awful word) or "Gefäße".

In trying to make the short description alliterate, I'm trying to stay in line with the title (Empty Erlenmeyer Experiment Expansion). I agree, though, the other titles all suit better as literal translations.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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The English subtitle isn't an alliteration either and the OP didn't ask for alliterations. So, let's keep it understandable and stylisticly correct.

"Schwere Entscheidungen & geheime Fläschchen" is the best solution we have.
 
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Simon Mueller wrote:
This is really a stupid discussion, but I like it ...

About capitalization: Yes I also misread the line as the title, but it isn't. So the second adjective in the German translation must not be capitalized.

Just for the fun of the admittedly silly discussion (how many posts can we write on four or five words?), it wouldn't be capitalized in a title, either.

Anyway, how to translate "flasks" is entirely a matter of taste, and all the suggestions made so far are perfectly fine, but I'd probably go with "Phiolen."

And hey, that opens up some new opportunities for Simon's alliteration idea. Hmm ... verborgene Phiolen? Not much worse than secret flasks ... cool
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Heinrich Glumpler
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Hi,

my top 4 list would be - in this order:

1. "Geheime Fläschchen & Schwere Entscheidungen"
2. "Geheime Fläschchen und schwere Entscheidungen"
3. "Schwere Entscheidungen & Geheime Fläschchen"
4. "Schwere Entscheidungen und geheime Fläschchen"

And I want to congratulate Verbal for his foresight to ask for a check-up - whatever translation he chooses.

Ah - I forgot - here's *my* qualification as translator

"VIELEN DANK FUER IHRE KOOPERATION."

Good luck for your game!
Heinrich
 
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Sander Vernyns
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Thanks again for all the replies ...

Just some questions that came up when reading the new posts:

What is the difference between flaschen & fläschchen?

The text is indeed used as sort of subtitle (in fact it is the text on the back of the box as a teaser of what to expect from this expansion although in fact it doesn't say a lot but there has to be something on the back of the box)

In Experiment we used "Flaschen" to describe the erlenmeyers in the game so that's why I planned to use the same word to avoid problems. (However if someone can point out that our original wording of the rules is wrong, I would like to correct it).

Thanks to all the people who made this topic to a very interesting discussion ... (I'm happy to see that even native speakers can argue about several options so that it's not just me who find its difficult).

I always thought that game designing was difficult and time consuming but the final artwork and wording of the rules and box text is also a gigantic and underestimated task. If it's not done carefully almost everybody will notice it, but if you take the time to get everything as good as possible most people won't even think about all the decisions you had to make.



 
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As I've said above, there is only this one name for the Erlenmeyer flask in German: It's called "Erlenmeyer-Kolben". There are several words appropriate in this and that situation in Chemistry: Behälter (container), Gefäß (container), Glas, Reagenzglas (test tube), Flasche, Phiole, Kolben,... depending on what shape or flask you want to refer to. For simplicity's sake I'd stick with your wording "Flasche" and wouldn't change it any more. Or you should give us the whole rulebook to check.

Your other question, about the difference between "Flasche" and "Fläschchen" shall neither remain unanswered: A "Fläschchen" is just a small bottle/flask, it's the minimisation of "Flasche".
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