Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
6 Posts

PQ-17: Arctic Naval Operations 1941-1943» Forums » Rules

Subject: Aircraft Carriers in surface combat rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Przemek
Poland
Rzeszow
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Carriers in defending force may launch aircraft attacks every round starting from the second per 7.5.6.
What about Carriers in attacking force? Can they support surface combat like those in defending force?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Janiec
United States
(Teller County)
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
Quote:
What about Carriers in attacking force? Can they support surface combat like those in defending force?

Nope. The active player already had an opportunity to attack with his carrier aircraft during the Air Combat Segment.

Granted, there are two possible situations in which the inactive player is the attacker in surface combat: if the active TF is detected while transiting an enemy-occupied hex [6.6.1], or if the active TF is conducting a surface attack and is intercepted by a different enemy TF in the same hex [7.5.1]. In either case, it's the inactive player's choice to initiate surface combat, and he forfeits the opportunity to strike with his carrier aircraft if he does so.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Przemek
Poland
Rzeszow
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I couldn't find anything on that in designer's notes and I know very little about sea combat. Could you explain that to me?

1. The active player can only attack once with his aircraft carrier and the other player can scramble his fighters to defend.

2. Defending player in surface combat can fly his aircrafts over and over (starting round 2) and attacking player can't fly any single aircraft in the combat initiated by him even to defend his ships.

Please, let the landlubber understand it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Janiec
United States
(Teller County)
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
No navy ever intentionally sought a surface action with its carrier force, since by WWII carrier doctrine in all three navies (Britain, Japan, and the US) was to launch air strikes beyond visual range of the enemy. Not only did this keep your vulnerable carriers safe from enemy gunfire and ship-launched torpedoes, but it also accommodated the great difference between how you want to maneuver your ships during a surface battle and how you maneuver carriers when conducting flight operations.

The only historical exception was the night action off Cape Matapan in March 1941, when British Admiral Cunningham took his battle fleet (with carrier Formidable) in to investigate and dispatch what he believed to be a single stopped enemy ship and stumbled upon an Italian cruiser squadron with destroyer support. On that occasion, the carrier was not even at action stations when the battle commenced, and immediately turned away while accelerating to maximum speed.

The one time carriers did launch air attacks in the midst of a surface battle was during the action off Samar in the Battle of Leyte Gulf, when the Japanese main surface fleet surprised USN escort carrier groups supporting an amphibious invasion. Already conducting flight operations when the Japanese appeared, the carriers launched repeated strikes over the next 2-1/2 hours until the Japanese turned away.

Without going into the compromises necessary to try and realistically sequence a 12-hour turn, the Decision at Sea rules encourage players looking to attack with their carriers to keep them separate from any surface striking forces and to attack with them during the Air Combat Segment, before surface forces have a chance to engage.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt R
United States
Keller
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Chris,
How is anti-aircraft handled for attacking surface ships in a situation where an enemy carrier scrambles aircraft? That is, I'm assuming that AA fire is handled normally for the actual targets of the attacking aircraft, but are any nearby ships (not being directly targeted by the aircraft) able to make AA fire attempts?

In other words, because the ships are already on the surface battle board and cannot be stacked temporarily to resolve the aircraft attack, are the individual targets left to fend for themselves regarding AA fire? I'm going with the assumption that they cannot, as the fleet is organized for a surface engagement - not for defense against aircraft.

But I'm just making sure.


This also brings up a secondary question I have. What if *both* sides have aircraft carriers? I must admit I don't have the game yet so this may not even be a possible situation, but if it is a possibility then my understanding of the rules is that the carrier belonging to the attacking task force would not be able to scramble any fighters versus the defending scrambled fighters?

Obviously, it would be pretty dumb for the attacking to involve a carrier in a surface battle - better to break it off into a separate task force with at least one destroyer prior to engaging with the other warships. But I'm asking this question so I can better understand the rules.

Thanks again and I am very much looking forward to actually getting and playing the game. I think I've read the .pdf version of the rules at least three times in their entirety (and other sections as many as five or more times). From my understanding of the rules so far I imagine the actual game play to be fantastic...

EDIT: Also, this situation would only be possible in an 'alternate historical' scenario featuring an operational Graf Zeppelin or Peter Strasser.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Janiec
United States
(Teller County)
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
Quote:
How is anti-aircraft handled for attacking surface ships in a situation where an enemy carrier scrambles aircraft? That is, I'm assuming that AA fire is handled normally for the actual targets of the attacking aircraft, but are any nearby ships (not being directly targeted by the aircraft) able to make AA fire attempts?

In other words, because the ships are already on the surface battle board and cannot be stacked temporarily to resolve the aircraft attack, are the individual targets left to fend for themselves regarding AA fire? I'm going with the assumption that they cannot, as the fleet is organized for a surface engagement - not for defense against aircraft.

At the end of Step (e) of each Surface Combat Round, all ships not in the Withdrawal area are returned to the Deployment area. At that time, you could array your ships for AA defense when the defending carrier aircraft attack at the beginning of the next round, and adjacent ships that aren't themselves attacked can contribute to the AA defense of their neighbors normally. True, the engaged force is not in an AA disposition, but neighboring ships could still help defend one another. In practice it's not that big a deal.

Quote:
What if *both* sides have aircraft carriers?

Per 7.5.6, the attacking carriers' aircraft do not fly.

Quote:
this situation would only be possible in an 'alternate historical' scenario featuring an operational Graf Zeppelin or Peter Strasser.

Graf Zeppelin is included in the game as an optional rule for those who want to find out.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.