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Space Hulk (third edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: +1CAB or 1 more dice in CA? rss

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Dale Quimpo
Philippines
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Not too good with probabilities, which would be generally better, one more dice in Close Assault or a +1 Close Assault Bonus?

Are there any situations wherein which is better is different?
 
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Greg Payne
United Kingdom
Bristol
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In general: More dice mean that you're more likely to roll higher. But having positive modifiers means that you have a chance to roll higher than is possible on unmodified dice.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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I've answered a similar question in a "SH 1st edition" thread (about the new Claws).
Have a look (only the Broodlord is missing)...

wins draws dies kills unit (VS genestealer - front side)
17,4% 16,7% 66,0% 0,3 Marine
25,2% 27,6% 47,2% 0,5 Marine - on guard (prudent)
28,1% 19,6% 52,3% 0,5 Marine - on guard (aggressive)
72,1% 13,8% 14,1% 5,1 Marine with old L. Claws [just for comparison!]
52,8% 19,2% 27,9% 1,9 Marine with L. Claws
64,8% 18,5% 16,7% 3,9 Marine with L. Claws - on guard
34,0% 16,6% 49,4% 0,7 Librarian (*)
47,7% 24,4% 27,9% 1,7 Librarian - on guard (prudent) (**)
52,8% 11,0% 36,2% 1,5 Librarian - on guard (aggressive) (***)
34,0% 16,6% 49,4% 0,7 Sgt
47,7% 24,4% 27,9% 1,7 Sgt - on guard (prudent)
52,8% 11,0% 36,2% 1,5 Sgt - on guard (aggressive)
44,5% 20,3% 35,3% 1,3 Sgt with Pow Sw (prudent)
48,3% 13,6% 38,1% 1,3 Sgt with Pow Sw (aggressive)
57,7% 24,8% 17,5% 3,3 Sgt with Pow Sw - on guard (prudent)
67,2% 8,6% 24,2% 2,8 Sgt with Pow Sw - on guard (aggressive)
58,3% 14,8% 26,9% 2,2 Sgt with T. Hammer & shield
65,3% 19,3% 15,4% 4,2 Sgt with T. Hammer & shield - on guard (prudent)
70,7% 6,9% 22,4% 3,2 Sgt with T. Hammer & shield - on guard (aggressive)

-) "prudent" = if tied, rerolls (or forces the foe to reroll) only at no risk (e.g. if he rolled a 1 or the foe a 6)
-) "aggressive" = if tied, rerolls (or forces the foe to reroll) unless no improvement is possible (e.g. if he rolled a 6 or the foe a 1)
-) "kills" = how many genestealers he kills (ON AVERAGE) before he dies (obviously not counting the possibility that he kills more of them with other means, like firearms, spells, etc.)
-) I assumed that the rule about Librarians means: "after you've seen the dice, you may choose how many psi points you wish to pay".
(*) needs on average 2,64 psi points to modify a draw or defeat into victory. If he uses all his 20 psi-points for melee combats, his "kills" stat improves to 8,25
(**) needs on average 1,17 psi points to modify a draw or defeat into victory. If he uses all his 20 psi-points for melee combats, his "kills" stat improves to 18,83
(***) needs on average 1,29 psi points to modify a draw or defeat into victory. If he uses all his 20 psi-points for melee combats, his "kills" stat improves to 16,93
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Dale Quimpo
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72,1% 13,8% 14,1% 5,1 Marine with old L. Claws
52,8% 19,2% 27,9% 1,9 Marine with L. Claws
64,8% 18,5% 16,7% 3,9 Marine with L. Claws - on guard

Looking at these 3, it seems that having a +1 is better than 1 additional dice. Is my assessment correct?
 
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Luca Iennaco
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kookoobah wrote:
72,1% 13,8% 14,1% 5,1 Marine with old L. Claws
52,8% 19,2% 27,9% 1,9 Marine with L. Claws
64,8% 18,5% 16,7% 3,9 Marine with L. Claws - on guard

Looking at these 3, it seems that having a +1 is better than 1 additional dice. Is my assessment correct?

Yes (but that's because you are comparing 2d6+bonus of the Claws VS 3d6 of the Genestealers. In general, not only about SH, if you change the number of dice, etc. you must recalculate the problem; you cannot always assume that "+1" is better than "reroll". But in the case of Marines with Claws, it is.).
 
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Richard Watney
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Welwyn Garden City
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% of winning vs. 3d6:
1d6: 17%
1d6+1: 34%
2d6: 28%

2d6+1: 58%

% survival:
1d6: 34%
1d6+1: 51%
2d6: 53%

2d6+1: 65%

(1d6 and 2d6+1 included for comparison)

so if you need to kill, 1d6+1 will give you a better chance of succeeding, if you need to stay alive, 2d6 is marginally better.

having said all this, it doesnt take into account parry, or the fact that nothing on the marines side will ever roll 2d6 (without the +1)

(if you want any more comparisons i have a spreadsheet set up to get results quickly. (currently cant deal with parry, but should be able to do guard)
 
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