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Subject: Overwatch timing regarding unjamming and command point usage rss

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Ok guys, so I have a twitter account like some of you folks do. So does GW for that matter. I thought I'd take a chance and toss a tweet at GW with the rules question of when exactly a marine can unjam his bolter while on overwatch during the gene stealers turn. This is what I got from GW:

GW - "Sequence is: overwatch fire results in jam; Genestealer moves; spend 1 CP to clear jam; Genestealer moves; Marine fires.

(Assuming LoS thoughout.) Note that the jam will interrupt Sustained Fire. A bolter jam doesn't carry into the next turn."

Crud! cry

So looks like some of you guys were right... guess I own an apology... but that doesn't mean you'll get it! yuk

Ok ok... I made a mistake.
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JEREMY PAQUETTE
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
Dre2Dee2 wrote:
Ok guys, so I have a twitter account like some of you folks do. So does GW for that matter. I thought I'd take a chance a toss a tweet at GW with the rules question of when exactly a marine can unjam his bolter while on overwatch during the gene stealers turn. This is what I got from GW:

GW - "Sequence is: overwatch fire results in jam; Genestealer moves; spend 1 CP to clear jam; Genestealer moves; Marine fires.

(Assuming LoS thoughout.) Note that the jam will interrupt Sustained Fire. A bolter jam doesn't carry into the next turn."

Crud! cry

So looks like some of you guys were right... guess I own an apology... but that doesn't mean you'll get it! yuk

Ok ok... I made a mistake.



I hereby decree that you send me your copy of Space Hulk postage paid in atonement for your sins.
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
Wow... that's a little harsh, but I guess fair is fair after all.

*loads up his copy of Space Hulk with gene stealer eggs* devil
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Rob Corn
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
Also answered here and here.

I'll have to check out the GW Twitter! Thanks.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
This doesn't really address the real issue at hand though: can a Marine spend CP after making his Overwatch Shot (even if clearing a jam is not allowed).

So far, the official unofficial response is "Marine player can decide to Overwatch or spend CP", which seems odd IMHO...

-shnar
 
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
shnar wrote:
This doesn't really address the real issue at hand though: can a Marine spend CP after making his Overwatch Shot (even if clearing a jam is not allowed).

So far, the official unofficial response is "Marine player can decide to Overwatch or spend CP", which seems odd IMHO...

-shnar


I don't you think you can spend CP after you overwatch shoot. Otherwise you could unjam your gun.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
But they didn't say that on the tweet. They said you can't unjam after jamming. Two different topics

-shnar
 
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Rob Corn
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
shnar wrote:
This doesn't really address the real issue at hand though: can a Marine spend CP after making his Overwatch Shot (even if clearing a jam is not allowed).

So far, the official unofficial response is "Marine player can decide to Overwatch or spend CP", which seems odd IMHO...

-shnar

The order is important. CPs have to be spent first, before any overwatch shots.

This example will likely be in the FAQ (probably different wording but same concept):
Click.
 
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
Ah ha!

So can I use CP to shoot before Overwatch triggers? If I do, I lose Over Watch right?
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
Quote:
So can I use CP to shoot before Overwatch triggers? If I do, I lose Over Watch right?


Correct! So long as you have witnessed a GS action.
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
Great! One issue put definitively to rest.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
A tweet is definately not definitive

Wait for the official FAQ.

-shnar
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
Out of context. The proper context for "one action" is that you use CP to make the Marine perform one action, and one action only. That's where the confusion comes from. If the Marine has already taken an action (i.e. an overwatch shot), does that count as his CP action (even though CPs were not used).

There is also history, 1st edition the overwatch shot did /not/ count as the CP action (since, well, no CPs were used), and thus a Marine could clear his jam on the same turn it jammed (but then had to wait one more turn to go on Overwatch).

-shnar
 
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David Knepper
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
shnar wrote:
Out of context. The proper context for "one action" is that you use CP to make the Marine perform one action, and one action only. That's where the confusion comes from. If the Marine has already taken an action (i.e. an overwatch shot), does that count as his CP action (even though CPs were not used).

There is also history, 1st edition the overwatch shot did /not/ count as the CP action (since, well, no CPs were used), and thus a Marine could clear his jam on the same turn it jammed (but then had to wait one more turn to go on Overwatch).

-shnar


Actually, shnar, the examples in the 1E FAQ may contradict you. There is a diagram, in the FAQ discussion of Command Points, of a Genestealer advancing on a Marine in OW. The Marine jams and the Genestealer takes another move action and then the Marine unjams his weapon. In the 1E FAQ discussion of Overwatch, this is reiterated in narrative (although it does precede the Command Point discussion).
 
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
shnar wrote:
Out of context. The proper context for "one action" is that you use CP to make the Marine perform one action, and one action only. That's where the confusion comes from. If the Marine has already taken an action (i.e. an overwatch shot), does that count as his CP action (even though CPs were not used).

CPs have to be spent before overwatch shots.
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
cadamec wrote:
shnar wrote:
If the Marine has already taken an action (i.e. an overwatch shot), does that count as his CP action (even though CPs were not used).


It counts as his 'action'. Actions can be free (OW shots), cost APs (in the Marine turn) or cost CPs (in the Marine turn or GS turn). A marine gets one action per witnessed GS action. It doesn't matter how you pay for it, it is just an action.


Totally agree on this, and it fits thematically as well. I can't imagine the SM clearing a jam faster than he can fire a burst anyway.
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
Aging One wrote:
shnar wrote:
Out of context. The proper context for "one action" is that you use CP to make the Marine perform one action, and one action only. That's where the confusion comes from. If the Marine has already taken an action (i.e. an overwatch shot), does that count as his CP action (even though CPs were not used).

There is also history, 1st edition the overwatch shot did /not/ count as the CP action (since, well, no CPs were used), and thus a Marine could clear his jam on the same turn it jammed (but then had to wait one more turn to go on Overwatch).

-shnar


Actually, shnar, the examples in the 1E FAQ may contradict you. There is a diagram, in the FAQ discussion of Command Points, of a Genestealer advancing on a Marine in OW. The Marine jams and the Genestealer takes another move action and then the Marine unjams his weapon. In the 1E FAQ discussion of Overwatch, this is reiterated in narrative (although it does precede the Command Point discussion).


I wish people would stop quoting the bad example in 1st Ed. My explanations are in the other thread. To me things are simply as follows,

1st ed: Free OW shot plus possible CP use against a GS action

3rd ed: OW shot action or CP use action in response to a GS action, the MUST-shoot-in-OW-stuff is no longer valid.

And here's my response to the Aging One in the other thread.

dustbiter wrote:
I don't know what's unclear here.

Quote:
"Can you spend command points to have a Space Marine take an action immediately after the same Space Marine has fired from overwatch?

Yes. The important thing to remember is that spending the CPs means the Space Marine automatically loses overwatch.


And the example under Command points with diagrams A-D does not contradict it. After the GS moved thrice and the marine jammed, he chose not to unjam at that point, only choosing to unjam at the GS's 4th move.
 
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
Good. I was hoping they would go with that answer.

Thanks for the update.
 
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Re: To Unjam or not to Unjam? The great CP rules question answered by GW!
dustbiter wrote:
Aging One wrote:
shnar wrote:
Out of context. The proper context for "one action" is that you use CP to make the Marine perform one action, and one action only. That's where the confusion comes from. If the Marine has already taken an action (i.e. an overwatch shot), does that count as his CP action (even though CPs were not used).

There is also history, 1st edition the overwatch shot did /not/ count as the CP action (since, well, no CPs were used), and thus a Marine could clear his jam on the same turn it jammed (but then had to wait one more turn to go on Overwatch).

-shnar


Actually, shnar, the examples in the 1E FAQ may contradict you. There is a diagram, in the FAQ discussion of Command Points, of a Genestealer advancing on a Marine in OW. The Marine jams and the Genestealer takes another move action and then the Marine unjams his weapon. In the 1E FAQ discussion of Overwatch, this is reiterated in narrative (although it does precede the Command Point discussion).


I wish people would stop quoting the bad example in 1st Ed. My explanations are in the other thread. To me things are simply as follows,

1st ed: Free OW shot plus possible CP use against a GS action

3rd ed: OW shot action or CP use action in response to a GS action, the MUST-shoot-in-OW-stuff is no longer valid.

And here's my response to the Aging One in the other thread.

dustbiter wrote:
I don't know what's unclear here.

Quote:
"Can you spend command points to have a Space Marine take an action immediately after the same Space Marine has fired from overwatch?

Yes. The important thing to remember is that spending the CPs means the Space Marine automatically loses overwatch.


And the example under Command points with diagrams A-D does not contradict it. After the GS moved thrice and the marine jammed, he chose not to unjam at that point, only choosing to unjam at the GS's 4th move.


Speculation. I would have thought you'd have done better suggesting that the person or persons who wrote the overwatch narrative and the diagram never talked the with person who wrote the command points narrative, nor did they ever see it before it was published in the FAQ. shake
 
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