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Subject: Ideas for an Expansion Map for Stone Age rss

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I'm a big fan of this game as it plays pretty well for 2-4 players. But often our game group has five players so Stone Age doesn't come out that often.

So I was thinking about some ideas for an expansion map for Stone Age that would allow a 5th player to play. It would be something similar to the Expansion Map for Pillars of the Earth that allowed for additional players.

Here's what I have come up with so far:

1) Expansion Map (ala Pillars) that would be situated next to the existing board.

2) Adding another field space (same as the original one) that would allow two people every turn to increase their food supply.

I think this would be necessary if you are adding a 5th player.

3) Adding a new space that would allow the player going there to become the player to go first the next round (similar to the Cathedral space in Pillars). You can call it the Tribal Elder Hut or something like that.

I think this is important for a 5-player game to reduce the starting advantage of Players 1-2 vs Players 4-5.

4) Adding a new space that would allow some sort of trading of resources. You could call it a Trading Hut or something like that. This space would allow you to trade in a resource for a another resource by giving up an extra 3 Food. For example, if you want to trade one clay for one stone, you would need to give up 3 extra Food per transaction. You can only trade up one level though. So if you then want to trade the stone for a gold piece, you would need to give up anotehr 3 Food.

This would give the extra players another way to acquire resources due to the space limitations at each resource site.

5) Adding a "Civ technology" track (similar to the existing food production track) that would track the number of unique "green" Civ cards each player has.

I feel that this is open information anyways, so why reward people with good memories. Of course, you can add a couple of new Civ Techs (such as Construction or Education) to make it up to a total of 10 techs can be researched during the game to match the 10 food track.

6) Adding an event deck that would have various event cards turned over at the beginning of each round. These events would effect everyone and would last for one round.

For example:

Winter Storm: No people can be placed in the food gathering space this turn

Tribal Sickness: Only half of your workers can be placed during this round (round up)

Gold Rush: Every player rolls 2 dice and takes gold per their dice roll (according to the division rules)

More ideas can be found in this thread: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/373555

7) Adding components for a fifth player (markers, wooden people, individual board etc...)

8) Add in the 6 Expansion Huts that came in the Spilebox Magazine.

I have these and I like them a lot. I feel that everyone should have access to these huts and adding them to an expansion would make the most sense.

I think 5 Players would be sufficient. 6 players might be too much in my opinion but any additional thoughts or comments are welcome....
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Marshall Miller
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Event cards wouldn't help this game. There should also be new huts instead of the old ones (avoid conflict over exclusivity). Otherwise, good ideas.
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darren williams
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The idea that tempts me is some kind of warrior training ground that eventually gives the ability to raid other supplies, and no I'm not a grognad at heart!
 
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Todd Redden
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How would "Tribal Elder Hut" work? As the game stands, first player rotates each turn. If the starting player chose tribal hut every turn then starting player would never change, and if the rule stipulated that starting player of the previous round couldn't select tribal hut, then the next player would be forced to take it each round (same as the food farm problem), effecting starting player in no way. Starting player would still rotate around the board each round, unless somebody was silly enough to give up their "right" to starting player on their turn.

I like the event card idea especially, and the other ideas sound stupendous.

 
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Joe Kundlak
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I think the event cards would blast the game balance out of the window.

Or they should be toned down to a minimum, where they would be unuseful then...

Sum up - no Event cards for me
 
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You could do a turn order space section like in Age of Empires, with a gradation of rewards.

First player to put one there gets 1st in turn order next turn.
Second player gets 2nd, plus something, perhaps a free wood.
Third gets 3rd place, plus clay
Fourth gets 4th and stone
Fifth gets 5th and gold.

Or it could be food, or quantity of resources that changed, or a choice of one of this or that...

All who didn't put someone on the space would follow in previous turn order.
 
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Joeyeti wrote:
I think the event cards would blast the game balance out of the window.

Or they should be toned down to a minimum, where they would be unuseful then...

Sum up - no Event cards for me

Not sure how they would have a negative effect on game balance, as they effect all players equally. They might have a more profound negative effect on one player's strategy for one turn, then another player's on another turn, etc. Their general effect would be to make the game less monotonous.
 
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tmredden wrote:
Joeyeti wrote:
I think the event cards would blast the game balance out of the window.

Or they should be toned down to a minimum, where they would be unuseful then...

Sum up - no Event cards for me

Not sure how they would have a negative effect on game balance, as they effect all players equally. They might have a more profound negative effect on one player's strategy for one turn, then another player's on another turn, etc. Their general effect would be to make the game less monotonous.

Ah, I must have misread the intent...

I humbly apologize and rewert my statement to - let us see goo
 
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tmredden wrote:
How would "Tribal Elder Hut" work? As the game stands, first player rotates each turn. If the starting player chose tribal hut every turn then starting player would never change.


Yes, that's true...but I don't see it as being a huge problem for a couple of reasons. First, the starting player would probably never choose this space on his first worker placement (not a good strategical move when the field space is available). So he would have to wait for his second worker placement turn to grab this space (assuming Players 2-5 don't grab it first).

Second, even if Player 1 did manage to grab this space on his second worker placement...what options would he have for his last 3 workers? Not much in my opinion if everyone playing is of equal experience.

I would imagine that all of the good huts, wood/clay resource spaces and 1/2 resource Civ cards would be gone by the time he places his 3rd worker. And this would be the same for the subsequent rounds so I don't see this as a good winning strategy for Player 1.

Of course that being said, I have not playtested this yet so your comments are quite valid. meeple You would need to do a lot more playtesting to verify this but I can see it working.

[Edit]: Sorry, forgot to add that if no one choose this space, then the starting player piece would pass to the player on the left per normal rules.





 
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
You could do a turn order space section like in Age of Empires, with a gradation of rewards.

First player to put one there gets 1st in turn order next turn.
Second player gets 2nd, plus something, perhaps a free wood.
Third gets 3rd place, plus clay
Fourth gets 4th and stone
Fifth gets 5th and gold.

Or it could be food, or quantity of resources that changed, or a choice of one of this or that...

All who didn't put someone on the space would follow in previous turn order.

OIC, that makes more sense, like Caylus or Kingsburg turn order. Then, turns would not go clockwise and there would need to be a turn order track. Might work. The bonuses you suggested would be necessary, as mixing up turn order has no other benefit to the game really.
 
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Well, I was thinking a turn order track, as that's what AoE III has.

I'm generally not too hot on a turn order where's it's a combo of clockwise and choosing. That can lead to situations where one person really benefits because the person to their right keeps bidding for first, so they constantly get 2nd for no cost.

That's one of the huge reasons I dislike Agricola.
 
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All of your ideas seem to relate to a 5th player except the event deck. I'm not seeing why going from 4 players to 5 players would necessitate the introduction of an event deck.
 
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Is it just me, or does almost every one of these suggestions move towards turning Stone Age in to Pillars of the Earth...
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An expansion might have an Industry hut. For example, I place my worker on it. Anyone may give me two of one good and I get one and you get one of the next higher good. This would be not unlike ports in Catan. Alternately, placing a worker on the Trading hut could allow any trading as long as it is with you, see trading in Roll Through the Ages.
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commandwolf wrote:
2) Adding another field space (same as the original one) that would allow two people every turn to increase their food supply.

Maybe. Why farm? Why not tool or baby or a card for just one resource? Sure it's the best first move, but that doesn't necessarily we need another.

commandwolf wrote:
3) Adding a new space that would allow the player going there to become the player to go first the next round (similar to the Cathedral space in Pillars). You can call it the Tribal Elder Hut or something like that.

That's good. If you don't do that, pass the the leader two spots to the right as in Saint Petersburg: New Society & Banquet Expansion.

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i've got a 5-6 player variant thread here if you wanted to compare notes:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/436716

but aside from that...

commandwolf wrote:
2) Adding another field space (same as the original one) that would allow two people every turn to increase their food supply.

I think this would be necessary if you are adding a 5th player.

i toyed with the idea of doubling the fields / tools / love shack spaces but ultimately decided against it because it would drastically change the balance of the multiplier cards. i think it would be better to create a new space with new bonus for that turn. something like allowing the player to collect 2 food without any dice roll or perhaps a resource of their choice.

commandwolf wrote:

3) Adding a new space that would allow the player going there to become the player to go first the next round (similar to the Cathedral space in Pillars). You can call it the Tribal Elder Hut or something like that.

I think this is important for a 5-player game to reduce the starting advantage of Players 1-2 vs Players 4-5.

not sure i like that idea. some people could really get screwed over by a couple of players manipulating the 1st turn and it dramatically changes the nature of the game. although i do accept in a 5-6 player game you may need to compensate the latter players in some way on the very first turn of the game with additional starting food or something like that.

commandwolf wrote:

4) Adding a new space that would allow some sort of trading of resources. You could call it a Trading Hut or something like that. This space would allow you to trade in a resource for a another resource by giving up an extra 3 Food. For example, if you want to trade one clay for one stone, you would need to give up 3 extra Food per transaction. You can only trade up one level though. So if you then want to trade the stone for a gold piece, you would need to give up anotehr 3 Food.

This would give the extra players another way to acquire resources due to the space limitations at each resource site.

that's similar to the idea i had above in being able to pick a resource of your choice. i think the cost of yours is too harsh but perhaps mine is too good. maybe something in between would be fair.

commandwolf wrote:

5) Adding a "Civ technology" track (similar to the existing food production track) that would track the number of unique "green" Civ cards each player has.

I feel that this is open information anyways, so why reward people with good memories. Of course, you can add a couple of new Civ Techs (such as Construction or Education) to make it up to a total of 10 techs can be researched during the game to match the 10 food track.

not in favour. remembering what and how many others have picked up is part of the game.

commandwolf wrote:

6) Adding an event deck that would have various event cards turned over at the beginning of each round. These events would effect everyone and would last for one round.

For example:

Winter Storm: No people can be placed in the food gathering space this turn

Tribal Sickness: Only half of your workers can be placed during this round (round up)

Gold Rush: Every player rolls 2 dice and takes gold per their dice roll (according to the division rules)

More ideas can be found in this thread: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/373555

i don't think adding an additional element of arbitrary randomness would be good for the game. fine as an optional rule if people agree to it but i don't think it's necessary for a core 5-6 player expansion.

commandwolf wrote:

7) Adding components for a fifth player (markers, wooden people, individual board etc...)

agreed. in my thread Doug came up with a very simple suggestion of buying a second copy of the game for the additional huts, cards, player boards and spray painting the 5 and 6 players' markers / meeple a different colour. i think pink and black would be nice

commandwolf wrote:

8) Add in the 6 Expansion Huts that came in the Spilebox Magazine.

for a 5 player game you'll need another complete stack of 7 huts and for 6 players 14 huts if you want to keep the total huts in proportion. hence the need for a 2nd copy of the game.

commandwolf wrote:

I have these and I like them a lot. I feel that everyone should have access to these huts and adding them to an expansion would make the most sense.

it's a fair point but the second copy of the game would allow for 5 or 6 players and there's no reason why you can't substitute the 6 expansion huts for 6 regular huts if you want anyway whilst still maintaining the right proportion of huts. you need to keep in mind that the total number of huts and total number of cards dictates the game length and for balance reasons it would be preferable to try and keep it as consistent as possible.

commandwolf wrote:

I think 5 Players would be sufficient. 6 players might be too much in my opinion but any additional thoughts or comments are welcome....

i don't see why 6 players couldn't work equally as well as 5.

there's some other areas you need to address like total numbers of cards and types and how many meeple you'll allow in each resource space but if you want a detailed discussion refer to my thread above.
 
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I like the idea of an extra area and i think an area where furs can be had isn't bad. You could only place 1 meeple there similiar to farming/tool areas but you are guaranteed to get 1 fur token unless you want to push your luck. If you do want to push your luck, you roll 2 dice and if you roll over 7 you get double(2 fur tokens). If roll less than 7 or 7 you get nothing. Fur tokens(which all stone agers need) are wild tokens and can be used as any resource type when buying huts. What do you think?
 
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I like the fur idea, but who needs fur in the summer? Why not have a spot to get fur tokens. Then, every four turns, you must turn in all your fur tokes - you lose a person and a farm if you do not have a fur token to give up. One fur token spares you winter's harsh cold; while two fur tokens doesn't buy you anything, it sure means someone else is left shivering!!!
 
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Great ideas!


There is some kind of variant about gods in the game, that enable a player to re roll dice 2 or 3 times per game.
It could be nice I think to stress more the game on religion.. i do not know how but you could for instance put a meeple on a special place that gives you some advantages like preventing the random events or gaining a ressource or becoming able to re roll a dice....

A new possibility to gain victory points would be to train warriors to raid.. not other players (would be too bad) but to raid other tribes (similar to discoveries in age of empires) and then becoming notorious.
 
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i think the fur tokens are a bit too good. i thought my idea of a space that granted a resource of your choice on that turn was borderline but actually being able to 'store' the token and trade it in for a resource of your choice at some point in the future is going a bit too far in my opinion.

and i'm not infavour of imposing an 'expiry date' on the furs. that would involve extra admin in recording when each token was gained and when it must be used by and that's for every token owned by every player. too messy.

i think i'm leaning towards a trading post type space where you can trade 1 food for a resource of your choice but you need to choose the resource when the trade action is taken.

FrenchCrusader wrote:
Great ideas!
There is some kind of variant about gods in the game, that enable a player to re roll dice 2 or 3 times per game.
It could be nice I think to stress more the game on religion.. i do not know how but you could for instance put a meeple on a special place that gives you some advantages like preventing the random events or gaining a ressource or becoming able to re roll a dice....

i really like the idea of a religion space allowing you to re-roll a set of dice once during that turn. i don't think you ought to be permitted to save it for a future turn though and if you choose to re-roll you must take the second roll (no going back to the original if the second happens to be worse). a decision would need to be made however on whether it applies to just gathering rolls or for 'lucky dip' cards as well. i'd lean towards the former.

i think the trade and religion spaces would scale up to 6 players quite nicely. for the 5 player variant you could impose a similar 2 or 3 player restriction where only 4 of the 5 village spaces could be occupied in any given turn.
 
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Yojimbo252 wrote:


and i'm not infavour of imposing an 'expiry date' on the furs. that would involve extra admin in recording when each token was gained and when it must be used by and that's for every token owned by every player. too messy.



I think you're missing the point. The point is that you would have a four space track: Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter. You would have a marker that starts the game in spring. Each round, the marker moves forward. When it gets to the end of the winter round, everyone gives all their fur and takes a penalty if they have none. The penalty could be anything.
 
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commandwolf wrote:

2) Adding another field space (same as the original one) that would allow two people every turn to increase their food supply.


I agree with the argument that this overvalues the field civ cards, but I think with 5-6p it is critical to give more access to field/meeple/tool.

One idea would be to have a new 1-meeple spot, where you roll 1 die and 1-2 = +1 field; 3-4 = +1 meeple; 5-6 = +1 tool.

commandwolf wrote:

3) Adding a new space that would allow the player going there to become the player to go first the next round (similar to the Cathedral space in Pillars). You can call it the Tribal Elder Hut or something like that.


If you add some other options for the 5th player to get field/meeple/tool (most importantly field) early in the game, I'm not sure if a starting player space is critical. I think it would only be useful if it was a la Agricola where you keep starting player if no one takes it away from you. I much prefer this over the normal rotating first player. Also, since you don't know what civ/hut cards will be available next turn, starting player is not as valuable as in say Agricola. But if you used Agricola rules, it would usually be worth the 3rd or 4th player taking the Starting Player spot, so it would means the starting player would move around a lot faster.

Also, note that with more players, if you don't add more spots to the resources, players are in higher danger of being boxed out of resources. So the fifth player, being boxed out of the choice field/meeple/tool spots, can instead choose to block players on wood and use his/her wood stockpile to grab up the good civ cards early on.

commandwolf wrote:

4) Adding a new space that would allow some sort of trading of resources. You could call it a Trading Hut or something like that. This space would allow you to trade in a resource for a another resource by giving up an extra 3 Food. For example, if you want to trade one clay for one stone, you would need to give up 3 extra Food per transaction. You can only trade up one level though. So if you then want to trade the stone for a gold piece, you would need to give up anotehr 3 Food.


This is clearly too expensive. 3.5 pips for the meeple + 6 pips of food for 1 pip of resource.

I do like the idea of being able to alter the resources you already have without just rolling for more. But it would have to be something like a 1-meeple spot that allows you to improve your existing resources up to a total of 3 pips. Eg:
Replace 1 wood with 1 gold
Replace 1 wood with 1 stone, replace 1 brick with 1 stone
Replace 1 wood with 1 brick, 2 stone with 2 gold
Replace 3 wood with 3 brick
etc.


commandwolf wrote:

5) Adding a "Civ technology" track (similar to the existing food production track) that would track the number of unique "green" Civ cards each player has.

I feel that this is open information anyways, so why reward people with good memories. Of course, you can add a couple of new Civ Techs (such as Construction or Education) to make it up to a total of 10 techs can be researched during the game to match the 10 food track.


I don't see how this is related to 5p - seems just a complaint you have with the hidden nature of Civ cards. If so, just play Civ cards face up. Having a track to show what is pretty easily calculated by just looking over at their cards seems redundant.

commandwolf wrote:

6) Adding an event deck that would have various event cards turned over at the beginning of each round. These events would effect everyone and would last for one round.


Again, not really related to 5p - you just want to add some variation to the game, which is fine by me. I would recommend doing something like Agricola - Through the Seasons. You could have different events occur or the relative value of different resources could change from round to round, but in a predictable way. A simple idea would be:
Spring - +1 pip when any player rolls for gold this round
Summer - +1 pip when any player rolls for wood this round
Fall - +1 pip when any player rolls for brick this round
Winter - +1 pip when any player rolls for stone this round

 
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Jim bo
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Mease19 wrote:
Yojimbo252 wrote:


and i'm not infavour of imposing an 'expiry date' on the furs. that would involve extra admin in recording when each token was gained and when it must be used by and that's for every token owned by every player. too messy.



I think you're missing the point. The point is that you would have a four space track: Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter. You would have a marker that starts the game in spring. Each round, the marker moves forward. When it gets to the end of the winter round, everyone gives all their fur and takes a penalty if they have none. The penalty could be anything.

i may have missed the point on how the mechanic works but the comment regarding extra admin still applies.

you're talking about a new season track that has to be created and managed throughout the game and extra tokens to represent the furs. i think there's probably enough suggestions floating around that make use of the existing components and game mechanics.

i'm not saying it's a bad idea, but there are other ideas that are easier to implement.

Ryan Keane wrote:
I agree with the argument that this overvalues the field civ cards, but I think with 5-6p it is critical to give more access to field/meeple/tool.

One idea would be to have a new 1-meeple spot, where you roll 1 die and 1-2 = +1 field; 3-4 = +1 meeple; 5-6 = +1 tool.

why do you feel it's critical? with the extra players it means the lucky dip cards will have more dice rolls and there's a greater chance of gaining tools and fields. ok it doesn't help gain more meeple but meeple becoming relatively more scarce and hence the love shack being slightly more valuable isn't necessarily a bad thing.

if you want to introduce the possibility of gaining more tools/meeple/fields through new village spaces i think you'll need to come up with something else. being totally random doesn't make for good strategy and planning as getting the item you really need to compliment your multiplier cards and strategy would be based soley on luck.

i pretty much agree with your other comments however.
 
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