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Space Hulk (third edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Overwatch insanely powerful? rss

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Gergely Orsó
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Hi!

I've just got the game, read through the rules, and - not having played with earlier editions or anything like SH for that matter - got a feeling that there's no real reason not to put your men into overwatch whenever you get the chance.
Benefits:

- unlimited number of free shots
- bonus for sustained fire

The only real disadvantage I have found is that you move slower, and give time to your opponent to build up. This could prove to be problematic if you are playing with a turn limit (just checked the first two missions for rules so I'm not sure), but otherwise I cannot see how a marine standing at the end of a long corridor (like the one leading to the southeastern entry points in the first mission) can be killed...he just has an insane amount of FREE shots (7 or 8...). Or is it common in this game for 3+ genestealers to rush such a marine in a row hoping that the last one will maybe reach him? Granted, he is most likely done for once in reach, but I still find this one to be a but to powerful with sustained fire...something like a 1:6 kill ratio? (wild guess). Or do the marines desperately need this help?
 
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Soren B.
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Yes, GS die a lot. But try to swarm the marine(s) from several sides. Hope for jams. If you are lucky SM player runs out of Command Points to clear jams and you end up in a nice position to slice away at them.
 
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Henri Harju
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Yes it is. Which is why I went back to 1st. edition overwatch/sustained fire rules (you can download the 1st ed. rules from BGG). Much more satisfying. That and handling the command points and timer as in 1st. edition are the only changes I felt necessary for the 3rd. edition ruleset. Otherwise it's good.
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Branko K.
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I don't know whether it is SO powerful. 3rd Edition changed the LOS rules drastically - it's not just that the Marines do not "see" anything on the sides anymore, they now cannot see around corners, too. This reduces overwatch efficiency significantly, so I guess the sustained bonus is merely a compensation, nothing game-braking.
 
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Henri Harju
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baba44713 wrote:
I don't know whether it is SO powerful. 3rd Edition changed the LOS rules drastically - it's not just that the Marines do not "see" anything on the sides anymore, they now cannot see around corners, too. This reduces overwatch efficiency significantly, so I guess the sustained bonus is merely a compensation, nothing game-braking.

If my 5 games are of any sort of indication the changed LOS rules do not help the stealer player in the least. Sustained fire on overwatch on the other hand makes attacks from distance more than 3 a suicide. And in many scenarios you just have to do these attacks (knowing that they fail..). That's.. un-fun.
 
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Branko K.
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Well, on paper the percentages DO look bad for the Stealers..

but is Overwatch really such a great option for the Marines? Sure it is powerful when in action, but you have to sacrifice 2AP to use it AND leave some CPs because 16% of jamming on each shot is not that low, especially if you expect more then a few shots.

I think the point was that the power of Genestealers wasn't supposed to be "let's hope he jams or misses" but rather "let's stall them enough so we can overwhelm them". Rushing on the guy with unlimited action shots is a ridiculous tactic anyways.. amassing numbers and playing a waiting game is much more interesting both theme-wise and gameplay-wise. If Marine wants to huddle up in overwatch for most of the game, let him. Instead of rushing with three Stealers and hoping for the best amass your forces, rush him with sixteen of them and THEN let's see for whom will the percentages work.
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Henri Harju
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My experience after the first initial plays is that the marines tend to push forward with insane speed spending most if not all their command points to get the key marines (flamer/assault cannon/thunder hammer sergeant/claws marine) into the key positions. This is considerably easier with 3rd. ed. rules as you can "re-roll" your command points. Add to this the more effective overwatch and marine player has pretty solid tools to hasty advancing. The genestealer player just doesn't have a whole lot of time to build up his forces before the marines have already won.

Basically the 3rd. ed. rules take away the desperation last option away (even without sustained fire charging 4 squares towards ow marine is desperate).
 
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John "Omega" Williams
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Kentwood
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Only 16% chance of jamming? Feels alot higher than that. (Out of the 21 possible non-repeating outcomes of rolling a d6 twice, you get doubles on 6 of those. Which is about a 38% chance.)
 
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Rob Corn
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Columbus
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How appropriate. You fight like a cow.
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Omega2064 wrote:
Only 16% chance of jamming? Feels alot higher than that. (Out of the 21 possible non-repeating outcomes of rolling a d6 twice, you get doubles on 6 of those. Which is about a 38% chance.)

There are 36 possibilities of rolling two six sided dice, 6 of those are doubles.
 
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Joseph LaClair
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baba44713 wrote:
I don't know whether it is SO powerful. 3rd Edition changed the LOS rules drastically - it's not just that the Marines do not "see" anything on the sides anymore, they now cannot see around corners, too. This reduces overwatch efficiency significantly, so I guess the sustained bonus is merely a compensation, nothing game-braking.


I don't see how the line of sight reduces overwatch efficiency since the fire arc hasn't changed. The only difference that I can see is the marine is now blind from his sides and cannot spend command points to spin to face an attacking genestealer from those areas as he now cannot see them. I don't see how this affects overwatch. Could you elaborate?
 
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Branko K.
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Omega2064 wrote:
Only 16% chance of jamming? Feels alot higher than that. (Out of the 21 possible non-repeating outcomes of rolling a d6 twice, you get doubles on 6 of those. Which is about a 38% chance.)


This is absolutely correct. Yet completely wrong..
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The Price of Knowledge is Despair
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Get a GS within striking distance, then stop moving and bring up others behind it (out of LOS, so no Marine reaction.) Next turn he's toast.

And then there are corners...
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FEB
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Nah, wouldn´t say that overwatch is too powerfull in the 3rd edition.

First of all setting a Termy into OW costs him half of the basic AP´s.

Secondly, there is a 16% chance of jamming on every roll..

And finally, there are many good ways to kill the marines anyway. Encircle them. attack from the sides or from behind. Once you drag them into hand-to-hand combat, OW is lost. Once you´ve done that, move in your bad guys within LOS.

 
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Branko K.
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Umm...we sorta kinda covered those points already... whistle
 
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Um... have you actually tried playing a map?

A SM player who relies too much on overwatch is going to jam, waste CPs on reloading, and will probably loose a few marines ta boot.
 
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Kris Vezner
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Overwatch seems insanely powerful, but in practice I've found it less powerful than it seems.

Ultimately, you do have to spend 2 APs and hold back CPs if you are on overwatch. Doing this with your lead Space Marines is fatal to a rapid advance. As the Marines, in most missions you must advance rapidly to win. If you are not advancing rapidly, then the genestealers are piling up. The smart genestealer will lurk out of LOS and surround you, then once the tipping point is reached hit you from multiple points with large numbers of genestealers, force jams and overrun at least one Marine. From there you are fighting to regain control while the genestealers keep coming.
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Dan Sulin
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Overwatch is great when 1 or 2 Genestealers come rushing at you. But when you opponent has like 6 of them ready to bounce you find out quick that the jam will come and you will be dead. Sure Genestealers die like crazy, but it only takes one with a decent roll in melee to take out most Space Marines.
 
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