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Subject: Berevor - what's her weakness? rss

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Chris J Davis
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Berevor seems like an all-round, all-American, all-action chick...

She has the best movement of all the heroes, with an equal distribution of each terrain type throughout her hero deck. One of her starting quests also allows her to get a boat, so she can zoom around like nobody's business.

Her basic combat abilities ain't half bad, and she can upgrade very easily by use of her special ability (also increasing her life).

Her wisdom is 2, but again one of her starting quests places Gandalf nearby so she can upgrade to 3 easily.

So - high speed, good combat, very wise... what's her downside?
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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Her cards aren't really that great. She doesn't specialize in anything in particular. Her movement also reflects this.

A "balanced" movement is not necessarily best. After all, how often do you find yourself moving through every different terrain type? Efficient travel often involves several paths with the same symbol, so it's definitely advantageous to have many cards of the same symbol.
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John Johnson
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Also, she starts the game, and has quests to complete, far away from where a lot of the plots take place (i.e. Isengard, Edoras, Minas Tirith).

Still, I like playing with her.
 
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Ted Kostek
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She's probably my favorite character.

However, she's not great at combat. Her cards have a poor ratio of output to strength. If you sum together attack and defense, then a lot of Thalin's cards give 1:1; 2 attack + 2 defense for cost of 4 strength. Her cards, however, are more like 2 attack + 0 defense for 4 strength. Hence she's half as efficient.

If your mission is to defeat three minions, she may struggle. She doesn't have a great chance to beat the RingWraiths, either.
 
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Chris J Davis
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kostek wrote:
She's probably my favorite character.

However, she's not great at combat. Her cards have a poor ratio of output to strength. If you sum together attack and defense, then a lot of Thalin's cards give 1:1; 2 attack + 2 defense for cost of 4 strength. Her cards, however, are more like 2 attack + 0 defense for 4 strength. Hence she's half as efficient.

If your mission is to defeat three minions, she may struggle. She doesn't have a great chance to beat the RingWraiths, either.


Really? I had defeated the Black Serpent and was 1 damage away from defeating Gothmog when the game ended, and I hadn't been defeated once in the entire game. If my mission had been to defeat three minions, I doubt it would have been a problem to also take out the Mouth of Sauron.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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kostek wrote:
If your mission is to defeat three minions, she may struggle. She doesn't have a great chance to beat the RingWraiths, either.


Heh, Beravor has defeated the RW 2 for 2 in the final combats here . Both combats have been default combats for the RWs, today Beravor had -1 Fortitude Corruption on her going in (but she had Str 6 and Agility 3). Her ability to train more freely than any other character, gives her access to a lot of power cards.
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Ian Kelly
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Dam the Man wrote:
Heh, Beravor has defeated the RW 2 for 2 in the final combats here . Both combats have been default combats for the RWs, today Beravor had -1 Fortitude Corruption on her going in (but she had Str 6 and Agility 3). Her ability to train more freely than any other character, gives her access to a lot of power cards.


Also the Ravager deck just doesn't have much defense in it.

Anyway, I've completed the "defeat three minions" mission with Eleanor, so I'm sure it's possible with Beravor as well.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Peristarkawan wrote:
Also the Ravager deck just doesn't have much defense in it.


Ugh, don't have to tell me, today, the RWs drew their 8 cards, 0 Shields among them yuk . Of course, if I had actually used my brain, would've won by having my Mission completed. Then again, Beravor would've probably never gone for the monster token if there had still been 3+ of them out there and would've instead treked to Erebor to remove the Green Flag Event that moved the Black token by one.

If you get "Fall Back" and "Charge" (ideally 2x each), you can do some combos AND cancel opponent's card(s).
 
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Dam the Man wrote:
If you get "Fall Back" and "Charge" (ideally 2x each), you can do some combos AND cancel opponent's card(s).

IF
(that's a big IF)[size=24]
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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sdiberar wrote:
Dam the Man wrote:
If you get "Fall Back" and "Charge" (ideally 2x each), you can do some combos AND cancel opponent's card(s).

IF
(that's a big IF)


Ravager deck is the deck that generally sees the most action of the Sauron Combat decks, I'd say that combo happens pretty regularly with Minions (Black Serpent draws 9, Goth-boy 7 and RWs 8). Even if no "Charge", you can fake with the "Fall Back", since they will worry about Charge, maybe they use a less powerful card (just hope they don't slap down a "can't be cancelled", Thalin cares little for Fall Back).
 
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Matt Smith
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Peristarkawan wrote:
Anyway, I've completed the "defeat three minions" mission with Eleanor, so I'm sure it's possible with Beravor as well.


Now that's impressive. After my wife (playing Eleanor) retreated from several battles, I examined her hero deck after the game. I was shocked to find almost all her cards were 0 and 1 attack strength cards. If she doesn't train a lot and/or get lucky combos, Eleanor seems extremely weak in combat. I'll have to look at her deck again.
 
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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She gets bonuses from aimed shot and attack of opportunity, so you can't go just by the printed attack.
 
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Ian Kelly
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mvettemagred wrote:
Now that's impressive. After my wife (playing Eleanor) retreated from several battles, I examined her hero deck after the game. I was shocked to find almost all her cards were 0 and 1 attack strength cards. If she doesn't train a lot and/or get lucky combos, Eleanor seems extremely weak in combat. I'll have to look at her deck again.


She is rather weak. In that game I gained two Strength almost right off the bat, and I trained four times over the course of the game. Without that I doubt I could have done it.
 
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Ted Kostek
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Well this has been pretty enlightening for me.

I've played twice, and B didn't seem great in combat, but other folks are reporting much better results.

I wanted to understand this better, so I did some analysis. I defined the "efficiency" to be the output over the strength. How good is this character at converting strength into combat power.

A lot of combat is achieving good combos, but I couldn't figure out how to quantify that. At a guess, the decks are roughly equal in the "text power", but that's just a guess. In any event, I left that out of this.


Tot Str Tot Att Tot Def Att Eff Tot Eff
Beravor 41 32 26 0.78 1.41
Argalad 47 46 14 0.98 1.28


When it comes to dishing out damage, Argalad has a small but real advantage over Beravor, on average.

Add in a few groovy training cards for B, and the average advantage moves some.

That's not quite accurate, however, because a good player will hold onto nice combat cards, hence they are more likely to get used. Poor cards will be used to travel. A powerful combat card should "over-represent" itself in combat.

Not the RW battle, though, since you have to shuffle all together. A few training cards there may or may not come up. Makes it a little dicey, IMO, but maybe worth the risk.

Another interesting feature is that when it comes to total efficiency, B is actually better than A. Again, not too relevant during the RW battle since it's all about dishing out damage to the RWs.

It fits w/ the character, IMO. She's better at surviving than killing. Kudos to the designers.

So, back to the original question:

Quote:
What's her weakness?


She dishes out less pure damage than other folks.

She starts far away from the action, and her advanced quest pulls her back that way, too.

Overall, however, she kicks butt IMO. Like I said before, she's the one I like the best right now. After this, I like her even more.
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Chris J Davis
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MasterDinadan wrote:
Her cards aren't really that great. She doesn't specialize in anything in particular. Her movement also reflects this.

A "balanced" movement is not necessarily best. After all, how often do you find yourself moving through every different terrain type? Efficient travel often involves several paths with the same symbol, so it's definitely advantageous to have many cards of the same symbol.


I'd disagree with this. Berevor, as a ranger, has been given the "balanced" movement precisely to make her the best one at moving around. You are more likely to draw the cards you need to move in any terrain type. Whereas the dwarf, for instance, will only move quickly in the mountainous regions and will have trouble anywhere else. This was evidenced in our game the other night where Berevor was zipping around all over the place (especially with her boat, which was provided by her starting quest a couple of locations away from her starting location).

If you stayed in one area of the map a lot of the time and just concentrated there then having movement that specialised in that region would be best... but then you can't really call that a wide range of movement. For moving all over the place Berevor's balanced movement icons are the way to go.
 
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Chris J Davis
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kostek wrote:
She dishes out less pure damage than other folks.

She starts far away from the action, and her advanced quest pulls her back that way, too.

Overall, however, she kicks butt IMO. Like I said before, she's the one I like the best right now. After this, I like her even more.


I'm still not convinced, I'm afraid. Her base cards may dish out less "pure" damage, but she still has good cards that can combo well (+3 damage, I think). She also has that card that reduces her opponent's damage and defense to 1 each.

She can then also easily upgrade her cards through regular training, making her a powerhouse.

Strength 5 and Agility 2 isn't too shabby either.

Starting in a corner of the board is only a disadvantage at the very beginning of the game, and an insignificant one at that, as she can - as mentioned previously - pretty much fly wherever she likes (maybe she has her own eagle?). She can regularly cross the whole board in a single turn, hoovering up all the available favours as she goes.

She pretty much rocks, as far as I can tell.
 
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Ted Kostek
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bleached_lizard wrote:

I'm still not convinced, I'm afraid.


Fair enough.

We can disagree on whether or not she's the best character at combat.

Either way, we agree she's really good.
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David desJardins
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sdiberar wrote:
Dam the Man wrote:
If you get "Fall Back" and "Charge" (ideally 2x each), you can do some combos AND cancel opponent's card(s).

IF
(that's a big IF)[size=24]


You know that you can go through your deck and play the cards you don't want for movement, while saving the combat cards you do want, right? It's not as if you have to go into battle (except the Finale) with a random set of battle cards.
 
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Paul Leigh
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stop shouting!!!
 
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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DaviddesJ wrote:
You know that you can go through your deck and play the cards you don't want for movement, while saving the combat cards you do want, right? It's not as if you have to go into battle (except the Finale) with a random set of battle cards.

Erm, we were talking about the Ravager deck...
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Matt Elias
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I had trouble recently with her getting stuck in Mirkwood because I couldn't get any forest cards
 
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David B
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I'm currently playing Beravor in the PBF game Revenge of the Heroes and I like her quite a bit. It is the first time for me to play with her, but I've noticed a few things. Generally I'm able to move quite well, although so far I've had a lot of cards in hand so plenty to choose from. In combat I've noticed her cards don't do a lot of damage, and she doesn't have many combat cards that cancel other cards, or cards that can't be canceled. She does have quite a few cards that give bonuses if Sauron plays a certain way. These are a gamble, but can work out well if you guess right. Being able to train though helps you grab some better combat cards to improve your combat abilities.

I think one weakness she has is the same as her strength. She can rest and train (or heal) outside a haven. While that's good for you, you are also moving Sauron's markers forward, and make it easier for him to achieve a Shadow Falls victory.
 
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