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Space Hulk (third edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: newbie questions about overwatch and guard rss

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Rory Tedford
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firstly, if there is a time where a marine is on overwatch, and thier gun jams, is it possible to use command points to put the marine on guard instead of clearing the jam?

also, on the GS players turn, could you use command points to put the marine either on guard or on overwatch if they are coming towards you?

thanks for any clarifications!
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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1. Yeah, you can spend your CPs however you want, have them go on guard, back up/move away, etc. The only thing you can't do is fire the gun, since it's jammed (you need to clear the jam first).

2. Yeah, you can spend your CPs however you want, have them go on guard, back up/move away, go on overwatch, etc. You just have to witness a GS perform an action.

-shnar
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David Jackman
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From what i have read around here, it works kinda like this:

You CAN do things besides firing and unjamming in overwatch, but it precedes the free overwatch shot.

So, Whenever a GS moves, you can choose to take the free overwatch shot, or spend CAPs to do something else, but you do not get an overwatch shot and you lose overwatch status(unless you perform an unjam action).

For example:

GS Moves - Marine overwatch fire
GS Moves - marine overwatch fire
GS Moves - marine spends to CAPs to gain guard status, but loses overwatch status and does not fire overwatch
GS attack

OR

GS Moves - marine overwatch fire
GS Moves - marine chooses not to overwatch fire, and moves back 1 square for 2 CP, loses overwatch status
GS moves - marines gains overwatch status for 2 CPs.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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That's not what he was asking, but that is correct based on the feedback from GW at this point (note that none of the feedback is yet "official").

The OP wanted to know if he could go on Overwatch using CPs on the GS's turn, which he can do, if he witnesses a GS move. I should add that the turn he goes on Overwatch, he does /not/ get an overwatch fire...

-shnar
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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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shnar wrote:
That's not what he was asking, but that is correct based on the feedback from GW at this point (note that none of the feedback is yet "official").

The OP wanted to know if he could go on Overwatch using CPs on the GS's turn, which he can do, if he witnesses a GS move. I should add that the turn he goes on Overwatch, he does /not/ get an overwatch fire...

-shnar


Highlighted for emphasis.

I know this is a common assumption, but I don't think the rules ever stated that the acting Marine has to see the triggering event. Just that the triggering event allows the Marine player to spend CPs on any action (for any one Marine).

I may be wrong - I'd love to see an official reference!
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Oh, I thought you were going to point out that women play this game too

As as for which marine can act when a stealer moves, well, that's up for debate still. 1st Ed was only the marine that saw it (and only one marine, even if two marines witnessed the action) could spend the CP. This has been reworded ambiguously in the 3rd Ed rules, so wait for the FAQ...

-shnar
 
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Kim Brebach
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bryanwinter wrote:
shnar wrote:
That's not what he was asking, but that is correct based on the feedback from GW at this point (note that none of the feedback is yet "official").

The OP wanted to know if he could go on Overwatch using CPs on the GS's turn, which he can do, if he witnesses a GS move. I should add that the turn he goes on Overwatch, he does /not/ get an overwatch fire...

-shnar


Highlighted for emphasis.

I know this is a common assumption, but I don't think the rules ever stated that the acting Marine has to see the triggering event. Just that the triggering event allows the Marine player to spend CPs on any action (for any one Marine).

I may be wrong - I'd love to see an official reference!


You are right brian - its one of the biggest debates on these forums and according to haggis your interpretation is unofficially officially supported by GW. ie if a SM witnesses a GS action the SM PLAYER may spend CPs on any other marine whether or not the now action SM can see the GS action. Its all via the sensorium! A ruling will be in the upcoming FAQ.

And yes holding CPs in reserve so that you can go on overwatch or guard in response to a GS move pattern is a good way to mess with the hive mind... the GS player quite often has to base their rush or wait strategy on what they see on the deck.
 
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Rory Tedford
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thanks a ton for everything guys, it all really helps! i appreciate it tons
 
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bryanwinter wrote:
I know this is a common assumption, but I don't think the rules ever stated that the acting Marine has to see the triggering event. Just that the triggering event allows the Marine player to spend CPs on any action (for any one Marine).

I may be wrong - I'd love to see an official reference!


I am wrong! On page 12 of the 1st edition rules it clearly states that the action must be performed by a Marine that saw the triggering event. this clarification is missing from the 3rd edition rules.
 
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Michael Jean
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But SMs have radios and talk to each other. So if any one of them see a GS, any one of them can take an action.
 
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Rob Corn
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bryanwinter wrote:
bryanwinter wrote:
I know this is a common assumption, but I don't think the rules ever stated that the acting Marine has to see the triggering event. Just that the triggering event allows the Marine player to spend CPs on any action (for any one Marine).

I may be wrong - I'd love to see an official reference!


I am wrong! On page 12 of the 1st edition rules it clearly states that the action must be performed by a Marine that saw the triggering event. this clarification is missing from the 3rd edition rules.

I think you were originally right. CPs can be spent on any Space Marine, which will be clarified in the upcoming Q&A.
 
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Guido Gloor
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Since we're on the subject, I have a question as well. If I understood your answers so far correctly it's already answered, but I'll ask for clarification anyway:

If a SM model spends APs from whatever source for whatever action and the model that does the action is in overwatch or guard status, it loses that status - correct?

(Essentially, I wonder if I can use guard with one of my sergeants and then use it to hit tyranids in the SM turn.)
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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With the exception of clearing a jam, any action clears out the Overwatch/Jam.

haslo wrote:
(Essentially, I wonder if I can use guard with one of my sergeants and then use it to hit tyranids in the SM turn.)


In this case however, you're not quite understanding the Guard rules.

At the end of the Stealer's turn, all Overwatch and Guard actions are removed (during that one stage of the turn, can't remember the name and don't have my rulebook). You will never get to use a Guard on your turn, they only happen on the Stealer's turn, and then only when the Stealer player initiates the attack.

-shnar
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Guido Gloor
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shnar wrote:
In this case however, you're not quite understanding the Guard rules.

I thought I implied that when I asked a question about them. Thanks for stating the obvious, though, despite the very slightly patronizing way of your doing it

shnar wrote:
At the end of the Stealer's turn, all Overwatch and Guard actions are removed (during that one stage of the turn, can't remember the name and don't have my rulebook).

Aye, I was not talking about that however. Going into guard is an action that costs 2 AP, and I was wondering if it was possible to do this action before doing close combat actions, and whether it'd have any benefit for these following close combat actions within the same SM action phase.

shnar wrote:
You will never get to use a Guard on your turn, they only happen on the Stealer's turn, and then only when the Stealer player initiates the attack.

Thanks for the clarification. I blame my lack of thorough reading of the rulebook for this misunderstanding, I have not found the rule that the guard status is cleared when doing other actions just like the overwatch status is.

However, I haven't found it now either, unlike the overwatch status on page 13. While I perfectly believe you and think it makes sense, too - where does it say that guard status is cleared when doing other actions?

Edit: What I have found meanwhile is that guard only helps when GS attack a SM, and not the other way around, on page 15 ... so would it be possible to guard, then move, keep guard, then attack in close combat without the benefit of guard, keep guard still, and then wait for GS to attack with the benefit of the non-cleared guard? Not that this would always make sense, just wondering.
 
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