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1870: Railroading across the Trans Mississippi from 1870» Forums » Rules

Subject: 1870 Rules Question rss

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Russ Rusnak
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1870 rules Page 8, last two paragraphs of movement of share prices

"If a share value token is moved into a box where there are one or more tokens, the newly arriving token is place at the bottom of the stack of share value tokens that are already there.

A share value token does not move when a company declares a half dividend."


We had a situation where the Santa Fe & the GMAO started the round with a share value of 64 and the Burlington started with a share price of 60. Both theSanta Fe & GMAO held dividends and were placed under the Burlington. The person playing the Burlington stated, I want to go first next round so I'll pay a half dividend. At that point the presidents of the Santa Fe & GMAO, insisted that the Burlington half dividend would still be considered a movement so it would move from the top to the bottom of the stack. The president of the Burlington insisted the Burlington token would stay on top of the pile.

Who is right, the presidents of the Santa Fe & GMAO or the president of the Burlington?
 
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Ed Holzman
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The Burlington president is correct. Staying in the same box on the stock market display is not movement and the tokens that moved into the box under his token would remain under his token.
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Ben Foy
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Its right there in the rules you quoted. "A share value token does not move when a company declares a half dividend."
 
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A Derk appears from the mists...
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Hrm... I disagree. I think that's a rules lawyer moment. The token still 'moves' just not out of the box, which is the intent of the rule, IMHO.
 
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Ian Kelly
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derk wrote:
Hrm... I disagree. I think that's a rules lawyer moment. The token still 'moves' just not out of the box, which is the intent of the rule, IMHO.


As clearclaw pointed out in the other thread asking this question, it makes sense that it should not move, since it preserves the principle that whichever token has been there longest is first.
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Ed Holzman
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derk wrote:
Hrm... I disagree. I think that's a rules lawyer moment. The token still 'moves' just not out of the box, which is the intent of the rule, IMHO.

Um, no. This rule has been around since it first appeared in 1830 over 20 years ago and it has not, to the best of my knowledge, been changed in any 18xx title since.
 
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Ian Kelly
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Bearcat89 wrote:
Um, no. This rule has been around since it first appeared in 1830 over 20 years ago and it has not, to the best of my knowledge, been changed in any 18xx title since.


1830 has no option for half dividends. There are a number of games that have it now, but I believe that feature was first introduced in 1870.
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Scott Russell
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We turn it over so show that it has run, but it stays on top of the stack. Price markers only go to the bottom of the stack when they change boxes.
 
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Ben Foy
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derk wrote:
Hrm... I disagree. I think that's a rules lawyer moment. The token still 'moves' just not out of the box, which is the intent of the rule, IMHO.


There is no clear intent of the rule. They had 2 reasonable choices:

1.) The token doesn't move.
2.) The token moves but doesn't leave the box.

Instead of defining what it means to 'move but not leave the box', Mayfair chose the simpler solution. Note: Mayfair has had almost 15 years to modify this rule, if they wanted a different interpretation of the rules.
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Ed Holzman
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Peristarkawan wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
Um, no. This rule has been around since it first appeared in 1830 over 20 years ago and it has not, to the best of my knowledge, been changed in any 18xx title since.


1830 has no option for half dividends. There are a number of games that have it now, but I believe that feature was first introduced in 1870.

That's what I get for being vague...didn't mean half dividends, but tokens moving under a stack when they enter a box on the stock market.

Oh, and the rule DOES have a clear intent. It states that when a token MOVES INTO a box it goes to the bottom of the stack. Tokens that remain in the same box can roam around that box all they want but the do not MOVE INTO the box. They stay in the same relative position.
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J C Lawrence
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Peristarkawan wrote:
As clearclaw pointed out in the other thread asking this question, it makes sense that it should not move, since it preserves the principle that whichever token has been there longest is first.


I see two mutually reinforcing principles here:

1) The token that has been in a slot the longest always goes first.
2) Tokens don't move (in any way) on half-dividends.
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